Author Topic: Catalan Independence Movement  (Read 9576 times)

magpie seanie

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #105 on: October 02, 2017, 01:23:20 PM »
The referendum was illegal. The legislation that brought it about unconstitutional. There would have been no participation from the no side either way.


Lots of parallels with 1916. The overreaction of the occupying government has probably clinched it again.

Avondhu star

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #106 on: October 02, 2017, 02:04:20 PM »
Very interesting development on the horizon and how the Spanish government and the EU deal with any independence vote.
A yes vote isn't beyond the realms of possibility but what impact it will have on Spain's central government is the big question.
It will open a can of worms in relation to Basque if it is given any credence by the government.
We are entering a period of unstable governments across Europe in relation to many issues involving economics and reform including Brexit and the role of the EU in sovereign states.
Independence issues in places like Catalonia and Scotland will only be getting more frequent and if regions start to be granted independence where does that stop.
Brittany and Corsica in France next?What about closer to home and the North?Bavaria in Germany maybe?

Many of the Breton separatists sides with the Nazis against the French Resistance. Happily many of these collaborators were rounded up and executed after D Day. Of course a few escaped to Ireland and were employed by the I.R.A.designing memorials
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you

Fat Angry Motorist

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #107 on: October 02, 2017, 03:47:09 PM »
I've seen a lot of shite on FB, Twitter etc portraying this as some sort of left wing popular uprising.  If you read into, this it's more of a right wing popular uprising with two sets of conservatives fighting each other.
Give cyclists plenty of room.  It's the rules I tells ya!

CiKe

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #108 on: October 02, 2017, 06:13:33 PM »
I've seen a lot of shite on FB, Twitter etc portraying this as some sort of left wing popular uprising.  If you read into, this it's more of a right wing popular uprising with two sets of conservatives fighting each other.

Corrupt on both sides as well. The corruption line is often thrown out about the PP but CiU seem to have been as bad if not worse. The founding father of modern political Catalan nationalism somehow "inherited" hundreds of millions let's not forget and I have no doubt those leading the secession will line their pockets handsomely.

under the bar

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #109 on: October 02, 2017, 08:40:58 PM »
Will the International Brigade be reformed then?

Main Street

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #110 on: October 02, 2017, 11:32:28 PM »
I've seen a lot of shite on FB, Twitter etc portraying this as some sort of left wing popular uprising.  If you read into, this it's more of a right wing popular uprising with two sets of conservatives fighting each other.
Yes, it's  vitally important to consider Twitter and Facebook opinions  ::)

This movement for independence runs much deeper than a brexit, right wing led, anti immigrant sentiment.

The ingredients for a movement for greater autonomy/independence should include a distinct culture and language, be a viable economic unit,  have perceived and genuine injustices (present and historical) and importantly have popular sentiment on their side.

The Subbie

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #111 on: October 02, 2017, 11:41:44 PM »
Very interesting development on the horizon and how the Spanish government and the EU deal with any independence vote.
A yes vote isn't beyond the realms of possibility but what impact it will have on Spain's central government is the big question.
It will open a can of worms in relation to Basque if it is given any credence by the government.
We are entering a period of unstable governments across Europe in relation to many issues involving economics and reform including Brexit and the role of the EU in sovereign states.
Independence issues in places like Catalonia and Scotland will only be getting more frequent and if regions start to be granted independence where does that stop.
Brittany and Corsica in France next?What about closer to home and the North?Bavaria in Germany maybe?

Many of the Breton separatists sides with the Nazis against the French Resistance. Happily many of these collaborators were rounded up and executed after D Day. Of course a few escaped to Ireland and were employed by the I.R.A.designing memorials

That last bit sounds a interesting, have you got any links that could provide further reading ?

Fat Angry Motorist

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #112 on: October 03, 2017, 09:00:41 AM »
I've seen a lot of shite on FB, Twitter etc portraying this as some sort of left wing popular uprising.  If you read into, this it's more of a right wing popular uprising with two sets of conservatives fighting each other.
Yes, it's  vitally important to consider Twitter and Facebook opinions  ::)

This movement for independence runs much deeper than a brexit, right wing led, anti immigrant sentiment.

The ingredients for a movement for greater autonomy/independence should include a distinct culture and language, be a viable economic unit,  have perceived and genuine injustices (present and historical) and importantly have popular sentiment on their side.

Says the man/woman on an internet discussion board. ::)

In the 2015 Catalan Elections the "Together For Yes" coalition got less than 40% of the popular vote. Had Rajoy left well alone this would have gone somewhat under the radar in the rest of the world.  Though they might have more popular support now!
Give cyclists plenty of room.  It's the rules I tells ya!

Rufus T Firefly

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #113 on: October 03, 2017, 09:49:50 PM »
I don't know too much about this situation, but is there any sort of possibility that this situation could escalate into widespread violence, in light of the heavy handed response from the Spanish police?


Avondhu star

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #114 on: October 04, 2017, 04:42:35 AM »
I don't know too much about this situation, but is there any sort of possibility that this situation could escalate into widespread violence, in light of the heavy handed response from the Spanish police?
Across Spain there is little support for the Catalan cause. Indeed within Catalonia there is no guarantee that a referendum would pass in favour of Independence.  The national government response of course has ignored lessons from history everywhere and have come out on the heavy side.
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Avondhu star

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #115 on: October 04, 2017, 04:48:08 AM »
Very interesting development on the horizon and how the Spanish government and the EU deal with any independence vote.
A yes vote isn't beyond the realms of possibility but what impact it will have on Spain's central government is the big question.
It will open a can of worms in relation to Basque if it is given any credence by the government.
We are entering a period of unstable governments across Europe in relation to many issues involving economics and reform including Brexit and the role of the EU in sovereign states.
Independence issues in places like Catalonia and Scotland will only be getting more frequent and if regions start to be granted independence where does that stop.
Brittany and Corsica in France next?What about closer to home and the North?Bavaria in Germany maybe?

Many of the Breton separatists sides with the Nazis against the French Resistance. Happily many of these collaborators were rounded up and executed after D Day. Of course a few escaped to Ireland and were employed by the I.R.A.designing memorials

That last bit sounds a interesting, have you got any links that could provide further reading ?

Check out Yann Renard Goulet designer of Ballyseedy memorial and collaborated with Nazis in occupied France
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 09:38:30 AM by Avondhu star »
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Harold Disgracey

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #116 on: October 04, 2017, 11:09:04 AM »
Goulet also designed the monument in Crossmaglen.

That wasn’t a very helpful intervention by the Spanish king.

Rossfan

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #117 on: October 04, 2017, 11:31:26 AM »
Shades of Derry October 1968 and Easter 1916.
Do very right wingers ever read history?
I now hear on the News of Police chiefs being charged with "Sedition"!!!
Shades of Ireland 1917-21.
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

stew

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #118 on: October 04, 2017, 12:45:30 PM »
I've seen a lot of shite on FB, Twitter etc portraying this as some sort of left wing popular uprising.  If you read into, this it's more of a right wing popular uprising with two sets of conservatives fighting each other.

Uh huh.
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Avondhu star

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Re: Catalan Independence Movement
« Reply #119 on: October 04, 2017, 01:28:08 PM »
Shades of Derry October 1968 and Easter 1916.
Do very right wingers ever read history?
I now hear on the News of Police chiefs being charged with "Sedition"!!!
Shades of Ireland 1917-21.
No one learns from history.
The Catalan government can shit or get off the pot now. Spain won't give them independence and if they declare it the E.U. won't recognise them. There is a big Anti tourist movement in Barcelona so maybe it's time they can have their own state and see how that works out. The E.U.  can't recognise them without opening the door for Scotland or the North
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you