Author Topic: Derry Club Football & Hurling  (Read 970049 times)

You, Yew and Ewe

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2970 on: August 02, 2019, 03:46:58 PM »
It seems to me the players of the seven teams in the Reserve Recreational League are to be envied by the senior, intermediate, junior and reserve leagues.

Over a 16 week period from Friday 5 April to Friday 26 July they have 14 rounds of fixtures (seven home, seven away), most of the played on a Friday night and with a smile on the faces of all involved - they were playing for the joy of it.  Plus the training to match ratio is perfectly balanced ;)

The current set up for the 61 teams in the senior, intermediate, junior and reserve leagues would seem to cater for 30 odd players on the county panel out of roughly 1,000 players in the county (61 x 15 = 915, plus a sub or two each), so for about 3% of players the league structures has been ravaged by a warped sense of fairness. 

For definite the current set up needs an overhaul.  Last season at their introduction I was all for the league cup games as a gap filler between the block of league games, but no one (players, managers or supporters) seem to take them seriously; in essence they are glorified friendlies.  Senior cup games played with barely 15 players, reserve cup games conceded routinely and next to no supporters.

#changeourleagues

lenny

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2971 on: August 02, 2019, 04:58:51 PM »
So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we’re likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it’s unlikely we’ve a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That’s a pretty good compromise even if it’s not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who’ll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn’t have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It’s these players who get the most out of the league cups. They’re getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn’t get.

Jaysus Lenny,
Do you have an agenda here?

It is one of the worst systems in the country.
What players from other counties would love the Derry system?
What players within the county love it bar the select few?

It is a shitshow from start to finish and it seems you deflect or act like a politician when someone makes a good point or asks a decent question

Wtf are you talking about? Every post I’ve made has specifically addressed points made to me. There has been no deflection. A couple of the players I’ve spoken to are from Tyrone clubs. They went 7 or 8 weeks of summer weather with one league match and they’re sick of it. Every year the county team go well it means very few games in the summer with absolutely no idea when the games will be fitted in. At this stage clubs in Tyrone have played 8 games, in Derry they’ve played 6 not a massive difference. The big difference is the club players in Derry have had another 7 or 8 games organised for them in the form of league cups.

Mikhailov

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2972 on: August 02, 2019, 10:20:55 PM »
So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we’re likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it’s unlikely we’ve a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That’s a pretty good compromise even if it’s not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who’ll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn’t have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It’s these players who get the most out of the league cups. They’re getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn’t get.

Jaysus Lenny,
Do you have an agenda here?

It is one of the worst systems in the country.
What players from other counties would love the Derry system?
What players within the county love it bar the select few?

It is a shitshow from start to finish and it seems you deflect or act like a politician when someone makes a good point or asks a decent question

Wtf are you talking about? Every post I’ve made has specifically addressed points made to me. There has been no deflection. A couple of the players I’ve spoken to are from Tyrone clubs. They went 7 or 8 weeks of summer weather with one league match and they’re sick of it. Every year the county team go well it means very few games in the summer with absolutely no idea when the games will be fitted in. At this stage clubs in Tyrone have played 8 games, in Derry they’ve played 6 not a massive difference. The big difference is the club players in Derry have had another 7 or 8 games organised for them in the form of league cups.
.

Wise up Lenny. I am a Tyrone man first of all. Of course our lads are gutted at one game in 7 weeks but under NO circumstances would they accept no game in 12 weeks and certainly not glorified cup competition in that time. All our clubs are not happy but much happier than their Derry counterparts - the Derry set up is shambolic and your senior team lost 6 weeks ago! If your county team for example qualified for the super 8’s then to date this year your club players would have played 4 games so far - horrendous stuff. 4 games in 4 months! It is not easy admittedly to keep everyone happy but I can guarantee you every Tyrone player (albeit currently unhappy) would accept their system over the Derry system - 100% certain about that

drillsergeant

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2973 on: August 03, 2019, 03:34:46 PM »
So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we’re likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it’s unlikely we’ve a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That’s a pretty good compromise even if it’s not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who’ll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn’t have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It’s these players who get the most out of the league cups. They’re getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn’t get.

Jaysus Lenny,
Do you have an agenda here?

It is one of the worst systems in the country.
What players from other counties would love the Derry system?
What players within the county love it bar the select few?

It is a shitshow from start to finish and it seems you deflect or act like a politician when someone makes a good point or asks a decent question

Wtf are you talking about? Every post I’ve made has specifically addressed points made to me. There has been no deflection. A couple of the players I’ve spoken to are from Tyrone clubs. They went 7 or 8 weeks of summer weather with one league match and they’re sick of it. Every year the county team go well it means very few games in the summer with absolutely no idea when the games will be fitted in. At this stage clubs in Tyrone have played 8 games, in Derry they’ve played 6 not a massive difference. The big difference is the club players in Derry have had another 7 or 8 games organised for them in the form of league cups.
.

Wise up Lenny. I am a Tyrone man first of all. Of course our lads are gutted at one game in 7 weeks but under NO circumstances would they accept no game in 12 weeks and certainly not glorified cup competition in that time. All our clubs are not happy but much happier than their Derry counterparts - the Derry set up is shambolic and your senior team lost 6 weeks ago! If your county team for example qualified for the super 8’s then to date this year your club players would have played 4 games so far - horrendous stuff. 4 games in 4 months! It is not easy admittedly to keep everyone happy but I can guarantee you every Tyrone player (albeit currently unhappy) would accept their system over the Derry system - 100% certain about that

No senior or reserve league games  in 12+ weeks is a complete joke!! If you don’t play for the county the county board simply don’t give to craps about you! Hopefully the clubs don’t stand for this next year.

Squareball71

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2974 on: August 03, 2019, 05:49:45 PM »
Stand for it??? The clubs will endorse it at Convention. It will be the same crew, maybe in different positions but the status quo will continue. Too many there for their own vanity and for personal ambition and have been for too long. Not for the love of County or the clubs in it.

I don't know if they still happen but there used to be "think tank" meetings at the start of the year to discuss leagues and fixtures. I was at a few but soon became apparent they were talking shops to pay lip service to the clubs and CCC did whatever they wanted. Do these meetings still continue? If so was there one this year where the clubs thought a 12 week gap in the leagues was a good idea?

lenny

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2975 on: August 03, 2019, 08:34:20 PM »
So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we’re likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it’s unlikely we’ve a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That’s a pretty good compromise even if it’s not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who’ll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn’t have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It’s these players who get the most out of the league cups. They’re getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn’t get.

Jaysus Lenny,
Do you have an agenda here?

It is one of the worst systems in the country.
What players from other counties would love the Derry system?
What players within the county love it bar the select few?

It is a shitshow from start to finish and it seems you deflect or act like a politician when someone makes a good point or asks a decent question

Wtf are you talking about? Every post I’ve made has specifically addressed points made to me. There has been no deflection. A couple of the players I’ve spoken to are from Tyrone clubs. They went 7 or 8 weeks of summer weather with one league match and they’re sick of it. Every year the county team go well it means very few games in the summer with absolutely no idea when the games will be fitted in. At this stage clubs in Tyrone have played 8 games, in Derry they’ve played 6 not a massive difference. The big difference is the club players in Derry have had another 7 or 8 games organised for them in the form of league cups.
.

Wise up Lenny. I am a Tyrone man first of all. Of course our lads are gutted at one game in 7 weeks but under NO circumstances would they accept no game in 12 weeks and certainly not glorified cup competition in that time. All our clubs are not happy but much happier than their Derry counterparts - the Derry set up is shambolic and your senior team lost 6 weeks ago! If your county team for example qualified for the super 8’s then to date this year your club players would have played 4 games so far - horrendous stuff. 4 games in 4 months! It is not easy admittedly to keep everyone happy but I can guarantee you every Tyrone player (albeit currently unhappy) would accept their system over the Derry system - 100% certain about that

Wise up yourself. Tyrone clubs have accepted zero games in 9 weeks at the height of the summer. I checked that out with a player and he texted me back. “Lenny, we haven’t had one league for the last 8 weeks and we don’t know when the next game will be. In that time we’ve had one challenge game, 2 other challenge games were cancelled at the last minute by the other club. I’m sick of it and so are most of the players, training for nothing.“ That was sent to me earlier today. What’s laughable is the way some people hold up the tyrone leagues as some example of what ours should be like. Let’s look at some facts - Derry clubs have 11 league games with all county players available, tyrone have 10 league games with all players available. Derry clubs play 7/8 league cup games for non county players, tyrone have 5 extra league games for non county players. The criticism and logic used by posters on here is that games played without county players are meaningless and worthless yet tyrone have 5 of those in their league programme. In my opinion the derry league champions will be more worthy winners than the tyrone league winners because every league game in derry has all players available. A team in tyrone could win all 10 games when they have a full team but lose 5 when deprived of their county men. That isn’t a fair competition imo. Also tyrone this year have had a 9 week gap with absolutely no games organised, it’s up to clubs to try to get challenge games. Derry have a 10 week gap in the league and organise for their clubs 7/8 league cup games for non county players. If these games are a waste of time in derry because there are no county players why do the tyrone games become meaningful as they’ve no county players either. Those are all facts. If anyone is going to comment on this could they please refer to specific points they disagree with.

tonesfirstandlast

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2976 on: August 04, 2019, 08:18:01 PM »
What have you to say now Braveheart. If that’s what you think will get you to the top, you will soon find out that it takes more that brute force and ignorance to win the boy with the big ears.
Bully boy tactics never won anything. You have no history and less class.

Smurfy123

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2977 on: August 04, 2019, 08:40:27 PM »
Lads just reading above. The Down leagues continued all summer 15/16 matches played already and championship starts this weekend with league matches being played on weekends that he championship isn’t on. 4/5 starred matches which are played without the county player but all clubs except it as it’s that or no football. Generally when starred matches are played both teams usual miss 1 or 2 players so evens itself out. Good system. The Derry system looks crap

lenny

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2978 on: August 04, 2019, 08:50:10 PM »
Lads just reading above. The Down leagues continued all summer 15/16 matches played already and championship starts this weekend with league matches being played on weekends that he championship isn’t on. 4/5 starred matches which are played without the county player but all clubs except it as it’s that or no football. Generally when starred matches are played both teams usual miss 1 or 2 players so evens itself out. Good system. The Derry system looks crap

Starred games wouldn’t work in derry as you have one club who have 7 players on the county panel. Unfair to ask slaughtneil to play 5 or 6 league games without their county men.

Smurfy123

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2979 on: August 04, 2019, 09:02:40 PM »
It has been the same in Down for years. Kilcoo Burren And Mayobridge would have had 6/7 players on the county at times and play on regardless

Glenman93

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2980 on: August 04, 2019, 09:10:03 PM »
Lads just reading above. The Down leagues continued all summer 15/16 matches played already and championship starts this weekend with league matches being played on weekends that he championship isn’t on. 4/5 starred matches which are played without the county player but all clubs except it as it’s that or no football. Generally when starred matches are played both teams usual miss 1 or 2 players so evens itself out. Good system. The Derry system looks crap

Starred games wouldn’t work in derry as you have one club who have 7 players on the county panel. Unfair to ask slaughtneil to play 5 or 6 league games without their county men.

Make all games with county players worth 3
Make all games without county players worth 2

Wildweasel74

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2981 on: August 05, 2019, 01:45:40 AM »
Play all games off as normal with all players. We are hardly a force at County level currently and that not change in the near future.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 07:04:03 PM by Wildweasel74 »

Real Talk

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2982 on: August 05, 2019, 09:56:37 AM »
Play all games off as normal with all players. We are hardly a force at County level currently and that not WILL change in the near future.

Correct WW …  time to plan about 'starr' games when we are playing in Div 1 until then Lenny is spot on

hardstation

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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2983 on: August 05, 2019, 10:32:44 AM »
There’s more to it than the county team holding it up surely?
Derry & Antrim went out of the championship on the same day. We’ve 15 games played in Antrim. Not to mention the dual clubs who have knocked out 12 hurling games on top of that.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 10:37:26 AM by hardstation »


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Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« Reply #2984 on: August 05, 2019, 11:04:40 AM »
3 game to go in the league. Top 2 should finish Glen and S'neil. Bottom 2 Dungiven and Banagher.
Ulster League Champions 2009