Where now for Tyrone?

[omagh_gael]

Ah come on Zulu, 9 times out of 10? Sure we should have beat them last year and we were totally off our game. Not saying we are clearly better but you're a bit off with that one, imo.

[rosnarun]

Ah come on Zulu, 9 times out of 10? Sure we should have beat them last year and we were totally off our game. Not saying we are clearly better but you're a bit off with that one, imo.

yes and mayo 'should have' won the all Ireland last year

[square_ball]

A change of approach may happen but what will it inevitably achieve?

I don't think it will have us much closer to winning an All Ireland than today. Tyrone were physically and athletically dominated by Dublin yesterday.

Are there really any players outside the current squad that will make that much of an impact. I'm sure there will be calls for the likes of Coney and McNulty to be used as a target man type forward but both are badly lacking in the mobility needed for the game today. Have we really any better man markers than what played today in the county? Possibly young McKernan will get a call up today but realistically he's about 3 or 4 years of gym work off being able to man mark one of the Dublin lads yesterday.

It took yesterday to dawn on me how far ahead Dublin are of everyone else. Mayo have been the only side who look like they can match them physically and athletically in the past few years.

That's the bottom line - there are very few other players in the county that are capable of coming into that squad (not just man markers) and as you say it takes a few years to get up to intercounty level unless you are exceptional like O'Callaghan for the Dubs. A lot of our players were shown up yesterday as being decent county players but way short of that elite level. I think a change in approach would get us to the same stage as this year as standards are poor elsewhere but we are absolutely miles off the Dubs. That 2nd choice forward line they showed on the Sunday game last night was frightening.

It would give you a chance. What's the point in playing horrible, losing football? You've got good footballers, M Donnelly, Harte and McCann are players any team would want and you've got some very good, albeit small, forwards. Let them play football and see where it gets you.

Look at Kerry, they got spooked by the roasting their full back line got in the drawn game against Mayo and dropped one of the best forwards in Ireland. Instead of playing a sweeper they should have backed their forwards to score more than Mayo's. Had they done so who knows what would have happened. Good football teams like Tyrone need to show confidence in themselves and try to outscore their opponents. It may not win them an All Ireland but at least they'd go out on their shields and their fans can enjoy watching the journey.

That's what I'm saying - playing a different style would still have got us to an All Ireland semi final this year and will do next year as well in my opinion. I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence. Yesterday was painful to watch.

[Il Bomber Destro]

A change of approach may happen but what will it inevitably achieve?

I don't think it will have us much closer to winning an All Ireland than today. Tyrone were physically and athletically dominated by Dublin yesterday.

Are there really any players outside the current squad that will make that much of an impact. I'm sure there will be calls for the likes of Coney and McNulty to be used as a target man type forward but both are badly lacking in the mobility needed for the game today. Have we really any better man markers than what played today in the county? Possibly young McKernan will get a call up today but realistically he's about 3 or 4 years of gym work off being able to man mark one of the Dublin lads yesterday.

It took yesterday to dawn on me how far ahead Dublin are of everyone else. Mayo have been the only side who look like they can match them physically and athletically in the past few years.

That's the bottom line - there are very few other players in the county that are capable of coming into that squad (not just man markers) and as you say it takes a few years to get up to intercounty level unless you are exceptional like O'Callaghan for the Dubs. A lot of our players were shown up yesterday as being decent county players but way short of that elite level. I think a change in approach would get us to the same stage as this year as standards are poor elsewhere but we are absolutely miles off the Dubs. That 2nd choice forward line they showed on the Sunday game last night was frightening.

It would give you a chance. What's the point in playing horrible, losing football? You've got good footballers, M Donnelly, Harte and McCann are players any team would want and you've got some very good, albeit small, forwards. Let them play football and see where it gets you.

Look at Kerry, they got spooked by the roasting their full back line got in the drawn game against Mayo and dropped one of the best forwards in Ireland. Instead of playing a sweeper they should have backed their forwards to score more than Mayo's. Had they done so who knows what would have happened. Good football teams like Tyrone need to show confidence in themselves and try to outscore their opponents. It may not win them an All Ireland but at least they'd go out on their shields and their fans can enjoy watching the journey.

The point in playing horrible losing football is the same point in playing beautiful losing football. Losing football does not win trophies. I'd rather us play horrible football and be competitive than play beautiful football and get ransacked by a decent side. If you play open Dublin will run straight through you, if you close up, they can do what they did yesterday. Tyrone contributed to their own downfall yesterday by not playing with aggression and not playing with needle, they needed to do that to have any chance.

Name me a side who has played attacking football and beat Dublin under Jim Gavin in Championship?

[yellowcard]

There are no shortage of options for Tyrone should Harte's reign come to an end. Canavan, Logan, O'Rourke are obvious candidates but I really don't know think the Tyrone county board will replace him. It is going to be a problem at some stage though as I really don't see Harte stepping down anytime soon unless and until they win another AI title.

[Zulu]

Ah come on Zulu, 9 times out of 10? Sure we should have beat them last year and we were totally off our game. Not saying we are clearly better but you're a bit off with that one, imo.

Yeah, I went a bit over the top there but I certainly think Mayo are better than Tyrone at the moment. Tyrone aren't far off if they back themselves more.

[yellowcard]

A change of approach may happen but what will it inevitably achieve?

I don't think it will have us much closer to winning an All Ireland than today. Tyrone were physically and athletically dominated by Dublin yesterday.

Are there really any players outside the current squad that will make that much of an impact. I'm sure there will be calls for the likes of Coney and McNulty to be used as a target man type forward but both are badly lacking in the mobility needed for the game today. Have we really any better man markers than what played today in the county? Possibly young McKernan will get a call up today but realistically he's about 3 or 4 years of gym work off being able to man mark one of the Dublin lads yesterday.

It took yesterday to dawn on me how far ahead Dublin are of everyone else. Mayo have been the only side who look like they can match them physically and athletically in the past few years.

That's the bottom line - there are very few other players in the county that are capable of coming into that squad (not just man markers) and as you say it takes a few years to get up to intercounty level unless you are exceptional like O'Callaghan for the Dubs. A lot of our players were shown up yesterday as being decent county players but way short of that elite level. I think a change in approach would get us to the same stage as this year as standards are poor elsewhere but we are absolutely miles off the Dubs. That 2nd choice forward line they showed on the Sunday game last night was frightening.

It would give you a chance. What's the point in playing horrible, losing football? You've got good footballers, M Donnelly, Harte and McCann are players any team would want and you've got some very good, albeit small, forwards. Let them play football and see where it gets you.

Look at Kerry, they got spooked by the roasting their full back line got in the drawn game against Mayo and dropped one of the best forwards in Ireland. Instead of playing a sweeper they should have backed their forwards to score more than Mayo's. Had they done so who knows what would have happened. Good football teams like Tyrone need to show confidence in themselves and try to outscore their opponents. It may not win them an All Ireland but at least they'd go out on their shields and their fans can enjoy watching the journey.

The point in playing horrible losing football is the same point in playing beautiful losing football. Losing football does not win trophies. I'd rather us play horrible football and be competitive than play beautiful football and get ransacked by a decent side. If you play open Dublin will run straight through you, if you close up, they can do what they did yesterday. Tyrone contributed to their own downfall yesterday by not playing with aggression and not playing with needle, they needed to do that to have any chance.

Name me a side who has played attacking football and beat Dublin under Jim Gavin in Championship?

Gavin has only lost one match and that was an ambush against Donegal when Dublin were playing all out attacking football. Had Connolly taken his goal chance that day Dublin could have won by 15 points. It was not definitive proof that a negative defensive set up is the way to beat Dublin though especially since Dublin have changed their gameplan to a more pragmatic one since then if required. Mickey Harte seen it as the template for success though even when playing against opponents that they are clearly superior to. He needs to be a bit more creative and at least put into practice a plan B for when the need arises. I believe Bradley is a very talented forward but he is being hopelessly under utilised in what is a thankless task up front with no support.

[Zulu]

A change of approach may happen but what will it inevitably achieve?

I don't think it will have us much closer to winning an All Ireland than today. Tyrone were physically and athletically dominated by Dublin yesterday.

Are there really any players outside the current squad that will make that much of an impact. I'm sure there will be calls for the likes of Coney and McNulty to be used as a target man type forward but both are badly lacking in the mobility needed for the game today. Have we really any better man markers than what played today in the county? Possibly young McKernan will get a call up today but realistically he's about 3 or 4 years of gym work off being able to man mark one of the Dublin lads yesterday.

It took yesterday to dawn on me how far ahead Dublin are of everyone else. Mayo have been the only side who look like they can match them physically and athletically in the past few years.

That's the bottom line - there are very few other players in the county that are capable of coming into that squad (not just man markers) and as you say it takes a few years to get up to intercounty level unless you are exceptional like O'Callaghan for the Dubs. A lot of our players were shown up yesterday as being decent county players but way short of that elite level. I think a change in approach would get us to the same stage as this year as standards are poor elsewhere but we are absolutely miles off the Dubs. That 2nd choice forward line they showed on the Sunday game last night was frightening.

It would give you a chance. What's the point in playing horrible, losing football? You've got good footballers, M Donnelly, Harte and McCann are players any team would want and you've got some very good, albeit small, forwards. Let them play football and see where it gets you.

Look at Kerry, they got spooked by the roasting their full back line got in the drawn game against Mayo and dropped one of the best forwards in Ireland. Instead of playing a sweeper they should have backed their forwards to score more than Mayo's. Had they done so who knows what would have happened. Good football teams like Tyrone need to show confidence in themselves and try to outscore their opponents. It may not win them an All Ireland but at least they'd go out on their shields and their fans can enjoy watching the journey.

The point in playing horrible losing football is the same point in playing beautiful losing football. Losing football does not win trophies. I'd rather us play horrible football and be competitive than play beautiful football and get ransacked by a decent side. If you play open Dublin will run straight through you, if you close up, they can do what they did yesterday. Tyrone contributed to their own downfall yesterday by not playing with aggression and not playing with needle, they needed to do that to have any chance.

Name me a side who has played attacking football and beat Dublin under Jim Gavin in Championship?

The only team to beat them playing a massed defence was Donegal and that was only because Dublin didn't set up properly. They now have the system to beat blanket defences so it's pointless setting up your whole season to lose without a fight. Kerry and Mayo have gone at Dublin and done much better than any team which has set up defensively.

You claimed that Tyrone's way of playing was the best way to beat Dublin but you were wrong. Tyrone need to be brave or you'll always be in that group of teams who are better than most but never good enough to beat the best. Why would you want that?

[APM]

There are no shortage of options for Tyrone should Harte's reign come to an end. Canavan, Logan, O'Rourke are obvious candidates but I really don't know think the Tyrone county board will replace him. It is going to be a problem at some stage though as I really don't see Harte stepping down anytime soon unless and until they win another AI title.

His Holiness is not infallible and there is going to come under some pressure and rightly so. I can't see him going quietly and if there is a push to get rid, then there will be lasting damage to the county.  The longer he hangs on the worse it will be for Tyrone when he does eventually go as will take a bigger adjustment.  Lessons from Meath (SB), Down (PMcG) and Kerry (MOD) all show that removal of a long term manager has long term consequences. 

[omagh_gael]

Ah come on Zulu, 9 times out of 10? Sure we should have beat them last year and we were totally off our game. Not saying we are clearly better but you're a bit off with that one, imo.

Yeah, I went a bit over the top there but I certainly think Mayo are better than Tyrone at the moment. Tyrone aren't far off if they back themselves more.

Fully agree, I'd say it's closer to 6 out of 10 in favour of Mayo.

For next year I'd say we'll have to compromise our defensive system slightly. I'd love to see us go with one man more in FF line and someone based on the 40 to provide an foot pass option out of defence. Something like this...

      Sludden

Bradley   R O'Neill .

We don't have any FFs that are 6ft plus who'll contest high ball but CoC amend Moran aren't huge men inside but win their fair share of long, early ball in and at least leave the other teams FB line honest and busy!

[Brick Tamlin]

Ronan O'Neill isn't conditioned to start a game let alone carry the threat against the best.
Good for a cameo when games are dead and buried but not the athlete to hang the hat on for anything else.

[skeog]

Ronan has the best tan though.

[seafoid]

Tyrone in no different to everyone else shocker.
The thing about long serving managers in any sport is they run out of ideas or players. Look at Man U.
Or Declan Kidney. Or Wenger.
Mickey owes Tyrone nothing.  I think in a lot of ways for a lot of people he sort of is Tyrone. And that is some achievement. 

[APM]

Tyrone in no different to everyone else shocker.
The thing about long serving managers in any sport is they run out of ideas or players. Look at Man U.
Or Declan Kidney. Or Wenger.
Mickey owes Tyrone nothing.  I think in a lot of ways for a lot of people he sort of is Tyrone. And that is some achievement.

Your dead right, but when they eventually go after an extended period of success, it leaves a bit of a mess - particularly if they don't go quietly. 

The criticism of Micko was that he hadn't developed the team in later years, leaving a huge rebuilding job.  Sean Boylan was routinely challenged by Eamon Barry who eventually got the job.  That caused a right bit of upset round that time and Meath may have had just one manager (Colm Coyle) that supporters have been happy with since. 

If Harte does go now, then he is actually leaving them in excellent shape for a transition.  If he hangs on another few years and they go backwards these young players will all be a couple of years older, with a few more retirees and nothing to show for it. It could eventually force the hand of the co. board which won't be pleasant and would lead to serious bad-feeling.

[Armamike]

Tyrone might be looking at a decade or longer of mediocrity. The thing about being hammered at the business end is that it is often career ending. System meltdown is not good.

Mediocrity?  Winning provincial titles and making the last four?

Tyrone players and supporters might expect (demand?) more, that's their prerogative but it will take a fair regression to lead them to mediocrity.

/Jim.

Tyrone are a fabulous side, they just ran into one of if not the best teams ever to play the game of gaelic football, 5 in a row is absolutely a possibility now, Dublin are young, hungry and managed brilliantly, I fear for Mayo in the AIF because to me they are nowhere near Tyrone and look what happened to them.

Tyron will be back, they have some fantastic players coming through but Dublin are going to dominate our game for a decade or more, they are that good.

Not sure how you work that out.  Mayo are the closest side there is to Dublin atm, and last year too.  They will compete and bring intensity.  They are playing like men possessed.  They have strong runners who will trouble Dublin.