Author Topic: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact  (Read 11103 times)

tonto1888

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #90 on: September 02, 2017, 08:10:53 AM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said not all scientists believe it exists
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 09:06:23 AM by tonto1888 »

mrhardyannual

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #91 on: September 02, 2017, 06:48:02 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.

tonto1888

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #92 on: September 03, 2017, 09:07:13 AM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

trileacman

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #93 on: September 03, 2017, 12:05:31 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.
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trileacman

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #94 on: September 03, 2017, 12:15:43 PM »
As an aside I'm pretty agnostic but I've to laugh at the fervour in which vast swathes of pseudo-intellectuals imbrace atheism and science with a feeling of smug superiority over religious folk. It's evident daily on this board.

Religious attempts to rationalise the universe are just as valid your scientific attempts to do the same. 600 years ago the smartest people knew as an undeniable fact that the earth was the centre of the solar system and probably sneered at those with more antiquated notions. In 100 or 200 years there'll be another slew of pseudo-intellectuals who'll laugh at the ideas upon which many atheists today hang their existence on.
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tonto1888

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #95 on: September 03, 2017, 01:13:34 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.

I understand enough about the BBT and the evidence that backs it up to believe it is the most likely theory for the formation of the universe. That did I also believe in God which is the point I was making. I find it hard to marry the two. Don't really want to discuss my faith on a forum like this though

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #96 on: September 03, 2017, 01:54:03 PM »
As an aside I'm pretty agnostic but I've to laugh at the fervour in which vast swathes of pseudo-intellectuals imbrace atheism and science with a feeling of smug superiority over religious folk. It's evident daily on this board.

Religious attempts to rationalise the universe are just as valid your scientific attempts to do the same. 600 years ago the smartest people knew as an undeniable fact that the earth was the centre of the solar system and probably sneered at those with more antiquated notions. In 100 or 200 years there'll be another slew of pseudo-intellectuals who'll laugh at the ideas upon which many atheists today hang their existence on.

Given that science and knowledge are incomplete and always accumulating, I'm sure there will be some ideas which will be discarded. However, we are talking about an accumulation and refining of knowledge, filling in the gaps and making modifications, NOT wiping the blackboard clean and starting all over again every century.

There was little meat on the bones of the geocentrists' ideas, certainly nothing remotely comparable to the evidence used to support the various scientific theories and paradigms which currently prevail. Similarly ancient people thought lightning was some manifestation of the anger of the gods - are we supposed to hold out for a divine cause of a thunderstorm as opposed to the phenomena that are well understood by meteorologists?

Just WHAT ideas on which atheism is supposedly hung do you think the "pseudo-intellectuals" will be dismissing in 100 years? Just the big bang? Evolution? Tectonics? Or are we just talking the very small pieces of the puzzle?

As for "rationalization" of where the universe came from, just which creation myth do you think we should use when claiming that its as valid as scientific theorizing?

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #97 on: September 03, 2017, 02:00:25 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.

What's with the "load of strangers" and "face value"?

Do you expect everyone to invent everything themselves from first principles?

Or must we only rely on people personally known to us, such as the priests teaching us about religion? (Although why is RELIGION not written off as the creation of total strangers?)

Do you avail of medical care? Do you fly? Do you first research, from the ground up, everything and anything that affects any aspect of you life, or do you put your trust in the accumulation of human knowledge and expertise, realizing that expertize must, by necessity, be spread across a multitude of disciplines and the people working on them?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 02:06:05 PM by J70 »

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #98 on: September 03, 2017, 02:04:32 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.

I understand enough about the BBT and the evidence that backs it up to believe it is the most likely theory for the formation of the universe. That did I also believe in God which is the point I was making. I find it hard to marry the two. Don't really want to discuss my faith on a forum like this though

But surely there is always room for a god?

Plenty of gaps in our knowledge and explanations, and with the big bang, specifically about what was going on right before it.

I understand the problem of these gaps diminishing over time, of course!

tonto1888

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #99 on: September 03, 2017, 02:36:18 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.

I understand enough about the BBT and the evidence that backs it up to believe it is the most likely theory for the formation of the universe. That did I also believe in God which is the point I was making. I find it hard to marry the two. Don't really want to discuss my faith on a forum like this though

But surely there is always room for a god?

Plenty of gaps in our knowledge and explanations, and with the big bang, specifically about what was going on right before it.

I understand the problem of these gaps diminishing over time, of course!

Not sure I get you mate. I believe in god. I sometimes find it hard to combine my faith with he knowledge I have learned from 📖 my science

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #100 on: September 03, 2017, 03:18:10 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.

I understand enough about the BBT and the evidence that backs it up to believe it is the most likely theory for the formation of the universe. That did I also believe in God which is the point I was making. I find it hard to marry the two. Don't really want to discuss my faith on a forum like this though

But surely there is always room for a god?

Plenty of gaps in our knowledge and explanations, and with the big bang, specifically about what was going on right before it.

I understand the problem of these gaps diminishing over time, of course!

Not sure I get you mate. I believe in god. I sometimes find it hard to combine my faith with he knowledge I have learned from 📖 my science

Just saying that reconciling the two is not a problem for many people, including the Catholic Church. There are enough gaps in knowledge to squeeze a god in there, if you really believe in it.

omaghjoe

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #101 on: September 03, 2017, 03:30:20 PM »
J70 your reverting to your age old assumption that the empirical universe is all there is and that universe follows laws.
And that a God can only fill in the gaps in the knowlegde
There is absolutely no reason to assume that the case.
 

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #102 on: September 03, 2017, 03:37:23 PM »
J70 your reverting to your age old assumption that the empirical universe is all there is and that universe follows laws.
And that a God can only fill in the gaps in the knowlegde
There is absolutely no reason to assume that the case.

I was specifically addressing Tonto's comment on his struggle reconciling science and religion.

omaghjoe

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #103 on: September 03, 2017, 03:48:04 PM »
J70 your reverting to your age old assumption that the empirical universe is all there is and that universe follows laws.
And that a God can only fill in the gaps in the knowlegde
There is absolutely no reason to assume that the case.

I was specifically addressing Tonto's comment on his struggle reconciling science and religion.
Yes by attempting to corral him into God of the Gaps

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #104 on: September 03, 2017, 03:58:55 PM »
J70 your reverting to your age old assumption that the empirical universe is all there is and that universe follows laws.
And that a God can only fill in the gaps in the knowlegde
There is absolutely no reason to assume that the case.

I was specifically addressing Tonto's comment on his struggle reconciling science and religion.
Yes by attempting to corral him into God of the Gaps

Feel free to advise him yourself Joe.

I saw someone commenting on how his science background has impacted on his religious outlook. I merely made a comment on the fact that even if science explains much that used to be attributed to religious sources, there is plenty of unknown stuff left on which one could hang one's hat with respect to religious belief. I see nothing controversial about that comment given that he is talking about science to begin with.