2017 Season - Where are we at?

[macdanger2]

Comparing the 16 years pre-qualifiers (1985-2000 incl) and the 16 years of qualifiers thus far (2001-2016 incl) regarding number of counties at various stages of the All-Ireland:

Number of different champions:  8 pre-qualifiers; 7 in qualifiers era

Number of different finalists: 11 pre-qualifiers; 10 in qualifiers era

Number of different semi-finalists:  18 pre-qualifiers; 15 in qualifiers era.

So it seems the data suggests there is not an expansion of progression.  The shock results in the pre-qualifiers era have been replaced to allow the loser to regroup and get back in via the back door.  Is this good?

As Sid point out, the 16 years from 1969 to 1984 will have different results.

1969-1984 data:

Number of different champions:  4 (Cork, Dublin, Kerry Offaly)

Number of different AI finalists:  9 (Armagh, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Kerry, Mayo, Meath, Offaly, Roscommon)

Number of different AI semi-finalists:  16

Don't think we made it to an AI during that period, we only won 2 Connachts

[Ball Hopper]

Comparing the 16 years pre-qualifiers (1985-2000 incl) and the 16 years of qualifiers thus far (2001-2016 incl) regarding number of counties at various stages of the All-Ireland:

Number of different champions:  8 pre-qualifiers; 7 in qualifiers era

Number of different finalists: 11 pre-qualifiers; 10 in qualifiers era

Number of different semi-finalists:  18 pre-qualifiers; 15 in qualifiers era.

So it seems the data suggests there is not an expansion of progression.  The shock results in the pre-qualifiers era have been replaced to allow the loser to regroup and get back in via the back door.  Is this good?

As Sid point out, the 16 years from 1969 to 1984 will have different results.

1969-1984 data:

Number of different champions:  4 (Cork, Dublin, Kerry Offaly)

Number of different AI finalists:  9 (Armagh, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Kerry, Mayo, Meath, Offaly, Roscommon)

Number of different AI semi-finalists:  16

Don't think we made it to an AI during that period, we only won 2 Connachts

Correct - somehow I put you in the final of '69...original post amended to 8 finalists during that period, fewest off all three periods under review.  Well spotted sir.

[seafoid]

And your solution Seafóidín?

1. Dump neoliberalism. It is shite
2 Reform the economy away from Dublin so jobs are available locally
3.Force pension funds to invest money locally or lose tax advantages
4 Tax derivatives and use the money to fund coaches in every parish
5. Use the rest of the money for 1 year swaps of Kerry and Kilkenny coaches to Antrim, Fermanagh etc
6 Every county gets the same money

[Rossfan]

And your solution Seafóidín?

1. Dump neoliberalism. It is shite
2 Reform the economy away from Dublin so jobs are available locally
3.Force pension funds to invest money locally or lose tax advantages
4 Tax derivatives and use the money to fund coaches in every parish
5. Use the rest of the money for 1 year swaps of Kerry and Kilkenny coaches to Antrim, Fermanagh etc
6 Every county gets the same money

Would you still have the Connacht Final?

[Solo_run]

Dublin - They are still the team to beat.
Kerry - Beat Galway without having to perform
Tyrone - Out of the teams left in the championship, I think they stand the better chance of challenging Dublin and Kerry. I am aware that the championship is different but I was at the game in the NFL vs Dublin and it is a game they should have won.
Roscommon - Provincial champions but still think they are a long way off. Playing better than any team ranked below them. 
Monaghan - Lost to Down but avenged that last weekend. I think there is still a big game in them but a big ask against Dublin.
Armagh - Playing exciting football but they need more time to develop. I don't think they will beat Tyrone.
Mayo - I have them rated as the worse team so far just because they aren't playing well. Is it a case of too many miles on the clock or if they just aren't good enough this year, who knows? If Armagh were playing Mayo instead of Tyrone I would have fancied Armagh to win which is why I have put Mayo at the bottom.

[Syferus]

If we're judging on performances, Kerry have been utterly ordinary in two of their three matches this year. In the other game they game up a rake of chances to a Cork team with no belief or defence. They are a long way off hanging with Dublin for the 70 + 10 minutes at championship speed. Tyrone might actually give Dublin more of a test than Kerry this year, and that doesn't say too much.

This comming weekend is the high point of the championship with two local rivalries in Croker and Dublin applying their usual beat down on some poor unfortunate. September has become a land of predictablity and desolation for everyone but Dublin.

[From the Bunker]

Dublin - They are still the team to beat.
Kerry - Beat Galway without having to perform
Tyrone - Out of the teams left in the championship, I think they stand the better chance of challenging Dublin and Kerry. I am aware that the championship is different but I was at the game in the NFL vs Dublin and it is a game they should have won.
Roscommon - Provincial champions but still think they are a long way off. Playing better than any team ranked below them. 
Monaghan - Lost to Down but avenged that last weekend. I think there is still a big game in them but a big ask against Dublin.
Armagh - Playing exciting football but they need more time to develop. I don't think they will beat Tyrone.
Mayo - I have them rated as the worse team so far just because they aren't playing well. Is it a case of too many miles on the clock or if they just aren't good enough this year, who knows? If Armagh were playing Mayo instead of Tyrone I would have fancied Armagh to win which is why I have put Mayo at the bottom.

To go basing one performance on another has no holding. Monaghan/Down being a case in fact. Taking a performance by Tyrone in early spring against the Dubs has as much hold as Mayo beating Tyrone in Healy Park in the League. Or for that part Tyrones performance against Donegal in the League.

Tyrone are still an unknown quantity. Because of the Topsy turvy nature of the Ulster Championship this year.

Armagh have beaten Leinster teams that got thought a lesson in their previous games against Dublin and lost to an average Down side!

Monaghan have not been world beaters either. Carlow game proved this!

Roscommon have had a good win against Galway. But they did not beat Mayo despite all the doom and gloom about this Mayo team. They still hold better form than most remaining.

Kerry are Kerry!

And Dublin hold all the Aces including Venue and path to the final!


Mayo maybe the easy target to complain about. But try beating them?

[seafoid]

Between 1969 and 1986 inclusive, just four counties won the All-Ireland.

Between 1958 and 1991 inclusive, just seven won it.

The 1990s were an aberration.

Hurling would be similar

[Solo_run]

Dublin - They are still the team to beat.
Kerry - Beat Galway without having to perform
Tyrone - Out of the teams left in the championship, I think they stand the better chance of challenging Dublin and Kerry. I am aware that the championship is different but I was at the game in the NFL vs Dublin and it is a game they should have won.
Roscommon - Provincial champions but still think they are a long way off. Playing better than any team ranked below them. 
Monaghan - Lost to Down but avenged that last weekend. I think there is still a big game in them but a big ask against Dublin.
Armagh - Playing exciting football but they need more time to develop. I don't think they will beat Tyrone.
Mayo - I have them rated as the worse team so far just because they aren't playing well. Is it a case of too many miles on the clock or if they just aren't good enough this year, who knows? If Armagh were playing Mayo instead of Tyrone I would have fancied Armagh to win which is why I have put Mayo at the bottom.

To go basing one performance on another has no holding. Monaghan/Down being a case in fact. Taking a performance by Tyrone in early spring against the Dubs has as much hold as Mayo beating Tyrone in Healy Park in the League. Or for that part Tyrones performance against Donegal in the League.

Tyrone are still an unknown quantity. Because of the Topsy turvy nature of the Ulster Championship this year.

Armagh have beaten Leinster teams that got thought a lesson in their previous games against Dublin and lost to an average Down side!

Monaghan have not been world beaters either. Carlow game proved this!

Roscommon have had a good win against Galway. But they did not beat Mayo despite all the doom and gloom about this Mayo team. They still hold better form than most remaining.

Kerry are Kerry!

And Dublin hold all the Aces including Venue and path to the final!


Mayo maybe the easy target to complain about. But try beating them?

I am not doing down Mayo's chances, I am only calling it as it is at present. Out of all the teams left, Mayo are the ones off the pace, but I also think they are coming in under the radar. They are after all one win away from a semi final appearance. But if they don't show up they are going to have the same fate as Galway.

Yes, Tyrone and Dublin game was in the league. And I agree about Tyrone probably not being tested but the same could be said about Dublin and Kerry. However, albeit against questionable opposition, they have dismantled teams in the same way Dublin have in Leinster.

[seafoid]

From 1974 to 90 no Ulster or Connacht team got to an all Ireland final by beating the Munster or Leinster winners. So there were no Connacht or Ulster winners.
That system broke down in 1991 and since then 5 Ulster counties have won. That was a game changer in the sport. Unfortunately only 1 Connacht team won since although it wasn't for the want of trying.
Unfortunately

[Syferus]

Between 1834 and 1903 Kerry didn't win a single All-Ireland.

[Fuzzman]

I'm glad now Tyrone did not beat Dublin in the league as it left enough questions unanswered to make the possible semifinal very interesting.
During the 2000s Dublin held Tyrone in high esteem and built their resurgence around how they did things.
Now the roles are reversed again and if they should meet it could be a crossroads for Dublin.
They know they have got Kerry and Mayo's number over the past few years but there has been a lot of talk that they don't match up well to the type of game Tyrone play.

Personally, as a Tyrone man living in Dublin, I think Gavin has been trying hard to change his players one by one and I don't think they are as strong as maybe two years ago but I still have my doubts if Tyrone are good enough to beat them.
I think it might come down to belief, hunger and sheer will to win rather than footballing ability.
I just hope we get the chance to find out before handing Sam to Mayo in the final.

[Fuzzman]

I'm glad now Tyrone did not beat Dublin in the league as it left enough questions unanswered to make the possible semifinal very interesting.
During the 2000s Dublin held Tyrone in high esteem and built their resurgence around how they did things.
Now the roles are reversed again and if they should meet it could be a crossroads for Dublin.
They know they have got Kerry and Mayo's number over the past few years but there has been a lot of talk that they don't match up well to the type of game Tyrone play.

Personally, as a Tyrone man living in Dublin, I think Gavin has been trying hard to change his players one by one and I don't think they are as strong as maybe two years ago but I still have my doubts if Tyrone are good enough to beat them.
I think it might come down to belief, hunger and sheer will to win rather than footballing ability.
I just hope we get the chance to find out before handing Sam to Mayo in the final.

[Syferus]

I'm glad now Tyrone did not beat Dublin in the league as it left enough questions unanswered to make the possible semifinal very interesting.
During the 2000s Dublin held Tyrone in high esteem and built their resurgence around how they did things.
Now the roles are reversed again and if they should meet it could be a crossroads for Dublin.
They know they have got Kerry and Mayo's number over the past few years but there has been a lot of talk that they don't match up well to the type of game Tyrone play.

Personally, as a Tyrone man living in Dublin, I think Gavin has been trying hard to change his players one by one and I don't think they are as strong as maybe two years ago but I still have my doubts if Tyrone are good enough to beat them.
I think it might come down to belief, hunger and sheer will to win rather than footballing ability.
I just hope we get the chance to find out before handing Sam to Mayo in the final.

Worry about Armagh first, ye aren't good enough to overlook them.

[seafoid]

And your solution Seafóidín?

1. Dump neoliberalism. It is shite
2 Reform the economy away from Dublin so jobs are available locally
3.Force pension funds to invest money locally or lose tax advantages
4 Tax derivatives and use the money to fund coaches in every parish
5. Use the rest of the money for 1 year swaps of Kerry and Kilkenny coaches to Antrim, Fermanagh etc
6 Every county gets the same money

Would you still have the Connacht Final?

Put it to a vote. I wouldn't miss it myself.
Also Pãirc na gaoithe in Salthill should be left to nature