Poll

Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
125 (54.6%)
No
89 (38.9%)
Undecided
15 (6.6%)

Total Members Voted: 229

Author Topic: Would you be in favour of a second tier?  (Read 38085 times)

BennyCake

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #870 on: June 12, 2019, 07:02:48 PM »
Will the Tier 2 Trophy be called the "Benny Cake Cup"?

Yes.

hardstation

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #871 on: June 12, 2019, 07:59:07 PM »
Terrible idea. It baffles me to think that a team could win 2 provincial games before losing one and they must exit the championship. The 2 teams they beat in the provincials remain in the championship without winning a single game in their province.
We are fucked.


irish345

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #872 on: June 12, 2019, 11:54:07 PM »
will 2 tiers appeal to casuals will casuals go on the lash because they won a b tournament will see mass celebrations in the county that wins

Owenmoresider

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #873 on: June 13, 2019, 10:54:18 AM »
"GAA President John Horan has revealed that two different formats for a proposed tier two football championship will be put before Croke Park’s Central Council before the end of June".

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0612/1054926-horan-cocktail-of-complexities-around-fixtures/
"One of them is a straight knock-out competition between the 16 teams; you’d have a first round, quarter-final, semi-final and final and the hope would be that the semi-finals would be played together in Croke Park and shown on television with the final played before one of the Super 8s games, again hopefully televised."

Really going out of his way to sell it to those who'll be packed off into it, yes if you manage to get to the final you'll be on before a group game in the big boys league, and maybe it might be on TV, or the Sunday Game might just show 90 seconds of highlights instead.

sligoman2

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #874 on: June 13, 2019, 12:51:44 PM »
I would suggest they have the final before the super 8 with the winner automatically getting a spot in the super 8's or a playoff for entry to the 8's.  That would give enough encouragement to commit to and win the second tier.
They need to sweeten the pot a little in my opinion.
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

PAULD123

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #875 on: June 13, 2019, 01:14:22 PM »
I would suggest they have the final before the super 8 with the winner automatically getting a spot in the super 8's or a playoff for entry to the 8's.  That would give enough encouragement to commit to and win the second tier.
They need to sweeten the pot a little in my opinion.

I see your point but the problem with giving a super-8 place to the winners is that the prize then becomes the access to the Tier 1 competition. If you have a Tier 2 competition it has to be valued in its own right. Maybe it allows access to next year Tier 1, that makes sense, but the competition must be an independent competition to have it's existence be of any genuine merit.

Teams genuinely want to win the Junior & intermediate All-Ireland club titles. Our club won Ulster and missed out in an all-Ireland semi by a point. The Ulster title didn't get us into USC or All-Ireland senior. But the prize was great - being Ulster champions (even though at effectively tier 2 level).

If we go back to Junior All-Ireland (Tier 2) then that has to be a competition alone and not a same-season stepping stone. Otherwise we may as well just keep the qualifiers.

Also I think the final should be played as a curtain raiser to the All-Ireland senior. The minors could come before it as a 3 match day (If we really insist on having minor final match senior final), or minors could be played at a separate event. Is the minor final really that important or popular except for the participating counties?

joemamas

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #876 on: June 13, 2019, 01:44:08 PM »
I would suggest they have the final before the super 8 with the winner automatically getting a spot in the super 8's or a playoff for entry to the 8's.  That would give enough encouragement to commit to and win the second tier.
They need to sweeten the pot a little in my opinion.

I see your point but the problem with giving a super-8 place to the winners is that the prize then becomes the access to the Tier 1 competition. If you have a Tier 2 competition it has to be valued in its own right. Maybe it allows access to next year Tier 1, that makes sense, but the competition must be an independent competition to have it's existence be of any genuine merit.

Teams genuinely want to win the Junior & intermediate All-Ireland club titles. Our club won Ulster and missed out in an all-Ireland semi by a point. The Ulster title didn't get us into USC or All-Ireland senior. But the prize was great - being Ulster champions (even though at effectively tier 2 level).

If we go back to Junior All-Ireland (Tier 2) then that has to be a competition alone and not a same-season stepping stone. Otherwise we may as well just keep the qualifiers.

Also I think the final should be played as a curtain raiser to the All-Ireland senior. The minors could come before it as a 3 match day (If we really insist on having minor final match senior final), or minors could be played at a separate event. Is the minor final really that important or popular except for the participating counties?
[/b][/u]

This is a no brainer and will give the competition credibility from the outset.

Getting to Croke park at 1.15 to watch a U17, doesen't cut it.
last year the place was still 2/3 thirds empty in the second half of that game.

five points

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #877 on: June 13, 2019, 02:34:13 PM »
Is the minor final really that important or popular except for the participating counties?

The whole idea is that it is, to all intents and purposes, only for the participating counties. The ticket scramble for 2 senior All Ireland finals on the one day in Croke Park would be murderous. The u17s are fine as a warm-up.

Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #878 on: June 13, 2019, 02:53:08 PM »
A lot of sacred cows would have their ticket allocations cut to have 2 Senior Finals the one day.
Otherwise you'd have say Longford v Carlow getting 1500 tickets each.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

magpie seanie

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #879 on: June 13, 2019, 11:25:21 PM »
Things I’ll never understand on threads like this.

1. Why people continually wish to create paths (back doors) for beaten teams to re enter-the competition. In the overwhelming majority of cases these beaten teams have genuinely no chance of winning the trophy. So all this does is bloat and elongate the competition unnecessarily.

2. Why anyone believes we need a second tier football championship. We already have one of those, it’s called CLUB FOOTBALL. Club football needs multiple grades, as it ultimately must provide a past time for players of all abilities.  County football doesn’t need to do this. It is an elite level sport.

3. Why anyone believes that the media, the general public, and even the majority of potentially available players would give even the slightest damn about a second tier county competition. It’s almost as though people are deliberately ignoring everything we’ve learned from hurling over the past decade. And now we’ve hurling fans on social media bemoaning that RTE wont cover games with 200 spectators at them. Is that who you want to be in 5 years’ time?

4. Why anyone on this earth would want to watch Antrim play Wicklow in round 1 of a championship, whether an open draw all county championship, or an open draw tier two championship. How to make sure the amazingly passive footballers of Antrim actually arrive at a complete stop, is to take away local derbies and associated media frenzy.

——-

If we want a high quality championship, then limit the number of games the weaker teams are faced with.

If we want to ensure that footballing counties can awaken from a slumber, then we can’t eject them from the All Ireland. There is a great generation of 11 year olds in every single county right now. But they won’t come close to fulfilling their potential unless the carrot of Gaelic Games is strong.

—-

Solution?


Go back to provincial championships.

Up to the provincial finals, beaten teams from National League d1 and d2 go into the back door once they’ve been beaten, and face-off until there’s 4 teams playing 4 beaten provincial finalists.

Teams from d3 and d4 do not get a second chance unless they make the provincial final.

Club football becomes king again by the start of June in half the counties in Ireland.


Excelllent, excellent post. The obsession with the intercounty game has skewed decision making terribly. That balance needs to be redressed.

Rossfan

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1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

imtommygunn

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #881 on: June 14, 2019, 11:02:58 AM »
Things I’ll never understand on threads like this.

1. Why people continually wish to create paths (back doors) for beaten teams to re enter-the competition. In the overwhelming majority of cases these beaten teams have genuinely no chance of winning the trophy. So all this does is bloat and elongate the competition unnecessarily.

2. Why anyone believes we need a second tier football championship. We already have one of those, it’s called CLUB FOOTBALL. Club football needs multiple grades, as it ultimately must provide a past time for players of all abilities.  County football doesn’t need to do this. It is an elite level sport.

3. Why anyone believes that the media, the general public, and even the majority of potentially available players would give even the slightest damn about a second tier county competition. It’s almost as though people are deliberately ignoring everything we’ve learned from hurling over the past decade. And now we’ve hurling fans on social media bemoaning that RTE wont cover games with 200 spectators at them. Is that who you want to be in 5 years’ time?

4. Why anyone on this earth would want to watch Antrim play Wicklow in round 1 of a championship, whether an open draw all county championship, or an open draw tier two championship. How to make sure the amazingly passive footballers of Antrim actually arrive at a complete stop, is to take away local derbies and associated media frenzy.

——-

If we want a high quality championship, then limit the number of games the weaker teams are faced with.

If we want to ensure that footballing counties can awaken from a slumber, then we can’t eject them from the All Ireland. There is a great generation of 11 year olds in every single county right now. But they won’t come close to fulfilling their potential unless the carrot of Gaelic Games is strong.

—-

Solution?


Go back to provincial championships.

Up to the provincial finals, beaten teams from National League d1 and d2 go into the back door once they’ve been beaten, and face-off until there’s 4 teams playing 4 beaten provincial finalists.

Teams from d3 and d4 do not get a second chance unless they make the provincial final.

Club football becomes king again by the start of June in half the counties in Ireland.


Excelllent, excellent post. The obsession with the intercounty game has skewed decision making terribly. That balance needs to be redressed.

Initially I thought this was a load of clap trap but thinking about it more I now think your post is bang on the money.

The only thing is the protracted out club year with the county championships only finishing after the AI series so may be waiting about but there is a lot of merit in what you are saying there.

(Of course there maybe wouldn't be as much money in it for the GAA so that may be a factor but I think making things proper knockout again would boost attendances greatly).

Paul Coady the Carlow hurler had a very popular twitter thread last night about the McDonagh which was very interesting around a) funding and b) how do carlow ever really improve yo yoing between competitions.

magpie seanie

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #882 on: June 14, 2019, 11:25:46 AM »
Super article by Cahair Healy. Thanks for sharing Rossfan.

Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #883 on: June 14, 2019, 11:52:16 AM »
No problem Seánie.
However like Brexiteers trying to return to the 1950s is he hankering after a time and way of doing things that has passed?
I know we've veered off the subject of the thread now....
Seeing as there's a new Fixtures and everything Committee can they come up with a way of ensuring that Club and County Championships advance in tandem over the Summer months?
Say designate a mandatory Club weekend in May, June, July, August and work County fixtures around that?
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....