Poll

Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
90 (53.9%)
No
68 (40.7%)
Undecided
9 (5.4%)

Total Members Voted: 167

Author Topic: Would you be in favour of a second tier?  (Read 17177 times)

Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #150 on: July 13, 2017, 06:40:18 PM »
What's a "vibrant part of the Championship"?
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seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #151 on: July 13, 2017, 06:48:14 PM »
How exactly?

Trophies and medals have value because of the glory involved in winning them - collecting pointless trophies no one cares about would be like crowing about FBD titles. And R4 of the Quailifiers is hardly a carrot.
What about  Hurling League Champions, Football League Semi finalists ?
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seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #152 on: July 13, 2017, 06:49:00 PM »
So if Leitrim get more money per head than Dublin they'll become a top 4 team??
They would have to stop sending top players to Meath as well
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LCohen

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #153 on: July 13, 2017, 07:12:31 PM »
I would be in favour of equal funding for all counties first. With zero drug/supplement bullshit.
If that doesn't work try tiering.

There are 3 options for a tiered championship.

Straight forward tiered system where everyone starts and ends the champions in tier 1 or 2. Promotion for the winners and some sort fight in the colosseum to identify who replaces them.

A champions league style group that determines your position in the tiered knock out competitions. Tiered competitions running in parallel.

Lower tier played out first with entry into the upper tier for the winner.

Option 3 is a scheduling nightmare.

No doubt serious drug testing with serious consequences for cheating is a must.

A serious look at funding is also required

stevecw

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #154 on: July 14, 2017, 01:49:47 AM »
Carlow captain Darragh Foley says a second tier championship does not appeal to him.

A championship for lower-ranked counties has been mooted again this year but Foley feels it would be of no benefit to the Barrowsiders, whom face Monaghan at home this weekend in round three of the All-Ireland SFC qualifiers.

"It wouldn't appeal to me. If you're playing in a 'B' championship you're seen as a lesser player,ö Foley told the Irish Independent.

"We'd never get a chance in a 'B' championship like we're getting on Saturday - playing a Division 1 team in a Round 3 qualifier at home before Sky TV cameras. That's where you want to be."


Fair play to him talking sense there.

I'd say he speaks for most players from so called weaker counties there. A b championship will never work in football. It was tried a few years ago and failed miserably. A couple of wins and a decent draw can lead any well trained team to still be playing championship football in mid July. To see Carlow as one of the last 14 teams left is amazing for me. A home game v Monaghan live on tv, in front of a massive Carlow crowd on Saturday evening. This beats any stupid B championship competition, where the final is played before 50 uninterested people.

seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #155 on: July 14, 2017, 03:05:26 AM »
A lot of counties can go a long time without shooting the lights out  and doing a good run in the qualifiers  a la Carlow this year.  Football has a structural problem in that Sam tends to be shared amongst a small group of counties unless something special  comes out of Ulster.

While there have been decent provincial and qualifier runs over recent years by teams such as Tipp, Clare, Sligo, London, Antrim, Longford, Fermanagh and Meath, it has usually been against enormous odds and hard to replicate. And for every D3/D4 team that does it there are at least 10 that are out of contention by mid June. Would a 2 Tier system lift the overall standard and make an all Ireland by an untouchable county more likely? Maybe it would, if combined with financial reform. Would the counties support such a proposal that might shake up the system? No. Counties and players love their chains. They are still loyal to that  one in 40 year thing. To win just once 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 03:07:17 AM by seafoid »
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Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #156 on: July 14, 2017, 11:43:32 AM »
Now to upset some people -
Counties fall into a number of categories
Natural Senior (population/recent success) -
Donegal, Tyrone, Down, Galway, Mayowestros, Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Meath Kildare. 10.
Natural Inter (pop 60-100k) -
 Monaghan, Cavan, Ros, Sligo,Westmeath, Laois and Offaly. 7.
Natural Junior -
Fermanagh, Leitrim, Longford, Carlow and London 5.
Hurley Counties -
Wexford, Kilkenny, Waterford, Tipp, Clare and Limerick. 6.
Inept (big populations uncompetitive) -
Louth, Antrim and Wicklow. 3.
Protestant Counties -

 Armagh and Derry. 2.
Of the last 50 All Irelands 45 were won by Senior Counties, 3 by 1 Inter County which is at a very low ebb now and 2 by Prod Counties who have slipped somewhat.


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magpie seanie

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #157 on: July 14, 2017, 11:50:42 AM »
Have you been drinking?

Esmarelda

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #158 on: July 14, 2017, 12:00:21 PM »
Now to upset some people -
Counties fall into a number of categories
Natural Senior (population/recent success) -
Donegal, Tyrone, Down, Galway, Mayowestros, Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Meath Kildare. 10.
Natural Inter (pop 60-100k) -
 Monaghan, Cavan, Ros, Sligo,Westmeath, Laois and Offaly. 7.
Natural Junior -
Fermanagh, Leitrim, Longford, Carlow and London 5.
Hurley Counties -
Wexford, Kilkenny, Waterford, Tipp, Clare and Limerick. 6.
Inept (big populations uncompetitive) -
Louth, Antrim and Wicklow. 3.
Protestant Counties -

 Armagh and Derry. 2.
Of the last 50 All Irelands 45 were won by Senior Counties, 3 by 1 Inter County which is at a very low ebb now and 2 by Prod Counties who have slipped somewhat.
Who'd have thought that a collection of counties "with recent success" would dominate a list of the last 50 AI winners?

seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #159 on: July 14, 2017, 12:34:12 PM »
Now to upset some people -
Counties fall into a number of categories
Natural Senior (population/recent success) -
Donegal, Tyrone, Down, Galway, Mayowestros, Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Meath Kildare. 10.
Natural Inter (pop 60-100k) -
 Monaghan, Cavan, Ros, Sligo,Westmeath, Laois and Offaly. 7.
Natural Junior -
Fermanagh, Leitrim, Longford, Carlow and London 5.
Hurley Counties -
Wexford, Kilkenny, Waterford, Tipp, Clare and Limerick. 6.
Inept (big populations uncompetitive) -
Louth, Antrim and Wicklow. 3.
Protestant Counties -

 Armagh and Derry. 2.
Of the last 50 All Irelands 45 were won by Senior Counties, 3 by 1 Inter County which is at a very low ebb now and 2 by Prod Counties who have slipped somewhat.
I like the inept category
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Syferus

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #160 on: July 14, 2017, 01:22:23 PM »
Now to upset some people -
Counties fall into a number of categories
Natural Senior (population/recent success) -
Donegal, Tyrone, Down, Galway, Mayowestros, Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Meath Kildare. 10.
Natural Inter (pop 60-100k) -
 Monaghan, Cavan, Ros, Sligo,Westmeath, Laois and Offaly. 7.
Natural Junior -
Fermanagh, Leitrim, Longford, Carlow and London 5.
Hurley Counties -
Wexford, Kilkenny, Waterford, Tipp, Clare and Limerick. 6.
Inept (big populations uncompetitive) -
Louth, Antrim and Wicklow. 3.
Protestant Counties -

 Armagh and Derry. 2.
Of the last 50 All Irelands 45 were won by Senior Counties, 3 by 1 Inter County which is at a very low ebb now and 2 by Prod Counties who have slipped somewhat.
Who'd have thought that a collection of counties "with recent success" would dominate a list of the last 50 AI winners?

;)

Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #161 on: July 14, 2017, 01:38:32 PM »
Recent success = Tyrone.
Don't drink (much) any more SeÓnie. - just still a bit excited since Sunday ;D.
Serious question - should special funding be directed towards the "inept" to make them competitive rather than to Dublin?
How about trying to improve participation in Gaelic games in West Belfast Derry City Dundalk Drogheda Athlone Sligo town????
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 01:44:44 PM by Rossfan »
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Crete Boom

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #162 on: July 14, 2017, 02:11:41 PM »
Recent success = Tyrone.
Don't drink (much) any more SeÓnie. - just still a bit excited since Sunday ;D.
Serious question - should special funding be directed towards the "inept" to make them competitive rather than to Dublin?
How about trying to improve participation in Gaelic games in West Belfast Derry City Dundalk Drogheda Athlone Sligo town????


I think Ross the Gaa should instigate an independent review of these counties and major urban areas (especially since they have a sucessful urban area in Dublin to go off) and put it to these counties to come up with a viable plan to improve. Money should only be committed on the basis of a workable long term plan i.e not just building a big concrete stand or hiring a big name manager!!!

seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #163 on: July 14, 2017, 02:44:15 PM »
Recent success = Tyrone.
Don't drink (much) any more SeÓnie. - just still a bit excited since Sunday ;D.
Serious question - should special funding be directed towards the "inept" to make them competitive rather than to Dublin?
How about trying to improve participation in Gaelic games in West Belfast Derry City Dundalk Drogheda Athlone Sligo town????
They all have soccer cultures

I think Wicklow should be colonised by motivated club players from the west coast . The local Irish in places like Baltinglass could function as backup
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Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #164 on: July 14, 2017, 02:46:47 PM »
Agreed but would they need a Croke Park full time official to wore with them in devising the right plan and overseeong/driving it.
The point I was making in my light hearted categories piece (lost on some I'd think) is that the AI SFC is the preserve of the few, that population, hurling, 6 Cos demographics and ineptiness rules out up to 20 Counties from future competing seriously for Sam.
So do we 20 odd keep hoping we might draw a few weak teams like Carlow did, get the odd oul Provincial or get to the Quarters via the Qualifier now and then or pray that a load of Kerry men will marry in and breed better players?
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