Author Topic: Another Kerry player fails a doping test  (Read 21028 times)

tonto1888

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #195 on: April 30, 2020, 12:30:55 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What’s your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #196 on: April 30, 2020, 12:51:31 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What’s your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.

tonto1888

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #197 on: April 30, 2020, 12:58:20 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What’s your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.

I didn’t say anything about testing club players. I said if a guy gets a ban it should be at all levels. If he is caught while on county duty then the ban should cover club games also

I probably could have made what I was agreeing with clearer  in fairness

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #198 on: April 30, 2020, 01:02:11 PM »
Ah well yeah, this Carlow fella is banned from all levels. It even extends to coaching I think. Which is another issue altogether.

shark

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #199 on: April 30, 2020, 01:02:16 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What’s your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.


Testing of club players is quite clearly not feasible. Just like testing an amateur runner who competes at a national level is not feasible.
However, testing of county players is. The argument is that a county player who tests positive should be banned from all levels. This is consistent with athletics. An international class runner who is banned for doping can't just turn up at an AAI sanctioned 5km road race and run. He's banned from that too.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #200 on: April 30, 2020, 01:55:27 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What’s your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.


Testing of club players is quite clearly not feasible. Just like testing an amateur runner who competes at a national level is not feasible.
However, testing of county players is. The argument is that a county player who tests positive should be banned from all levels. This is consistent with athletics. An international class runner who is banned for doping can't just turn up at an AAI sanctioned 5km road race and run. He's banned from that too.

I never argued that point, I agree with that. It was the testing of club players that I had an issue with.

I took up the argument when an International Rugby player was compared to a GAA player which in my view was incomparable in a sporting sense. But yes, if you fail a GAA Doping test, you should be banned at all levels. Banned from Coaching....I'm less on board with but I wouldn't feel the need to go to war about it.

redzone

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #201 on: April 30, 2020, 03:23:02 PM »
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

What the hell are u on about

tonto1888

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #202 on: April 30, 2020, 03:36:35 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What’s your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.


Testing of club players is quite clearly not feasible. Just like testing an amateur runner who competes at a national level is not feasible.
However, testing of county players is. The argument is that a county player who tests positive should be banned from all levels. This is consistent with athletics. An international class runner who is banned for doping can't just turn up at an AAI sanctioned 5km road race and run. He's banned from that too.

I never argued that point, I agree with that. It was the testing of club players that I had an issue with.

I took up the argument when an International Rugby player was compared to a GAA player which in my view was incomparable in a sporting sense. But yes, if you fail a GAA Doping test, you should be banned at all levels. Banned from Coaching....I'm less on board with but I wouldn't feel the need to go to war about it.

I wasn’t comparing them in a sporting sense in that case. More about how a ban should be applied

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #203 on: April 30, 2020, 03:38:05 PM »
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.
 
Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?


You don't play sport do you?

Yes, that is the rules when someone is sent off. There is no rule regarding club player drug testing and thus that is the way it should stay, so the floodgates are already open. As you put it.

There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. You might be great individually, which could, maybe result in a county call up where you'll be subjected to testing like everyone else on a higher platform. Even then, what do you get? A GPA grant? Trust me, you don't get that much a month from it, regional rugby player contracts aren't that much and they easily dwarf a county GPA grant.....and you don't have to bother going to work to top up.

So why do rugby playets dope then? Why do ayers bust a gut to get on tbe county panrl jn general? I accept in general doping is of less value to a team sport player than an athlete in an individual discipline, but your logic is flawed.

You would have to ask Rugby players the reasons behind doping. However, it is a physically more demanding game than GAA sports over more aspects. Contact is key - more contact = more recovery. The contact I'm sure we can all agree has lessned massively since say, the 00s in our games, whereas in Rugby it's got bigger and bigger. Doping massively increases the rate of recovery. Having played both I can say with a fair degree of confidence that the need to dope in GAA is much, much less than in Rugby Union (League is another level).

Some people dope because they don't have the necessary size to compete in their chosen sport, they feel pressured. Some maybe like to feel big. Some want to be the best they can be. It's not always about the money aspect. But of course that comes with performance.

Thats fine, but its not what you originally said.

You claimed there was no point in doping in the GAA as you are reliant on the other 14 players to win. Same logic applies to rugby.

One thing we are missing here is a proper regieme of PED's is expensive, tens of thousands. In rugby it seems to be players pushing the envelope with inhalers and OTC medication. And one Irish franchise is getting quite the reputation.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #204 on: April 30, 2020, 03:58:26 PM »
Yes I said that but the context was key - I said ....There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. whereas in professional sport you can win a contract and gain financially despite losing a game / championship.

As for the cost of PEDs....depends what you are after, a tub of decent preworkout will cost you about E50....Some of them would cause you to fail a blood test easily.

Ephedrine is a stimulant easily bought online, not expensive at all....actually, probably less than the preworkout depending where you get it.

For a full on blown course of whatever steroid takes your fancy? Yeah that can be as expensive as you want it to be.

Just googled the price of what this particular player in question tested positive for, looks around 40E direct from Latvia.


Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #205 on: April 30, 2020, 04:33:48 PM »
But you can win a county 'contract' by shining at club level...

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #206 on: April 30, 2020, 05:19:14 PM »
But you can win a county 'contract' by shining at club level...

Its not that much. You don't get to turn pro on little over a grand a month.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #207 on: April 30, 2020, 05:41:38 PM »
But you can win a county 'contract' by shining at club level...

Its not that much. You don't get to turn pro on little over a grand a month.

Its more than an acadamy contract in rugby or most LoI first division players get.

But assume players want to go county for other reasons.

gallsman

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #208 on: May 02, 2020, 10:29:17 AM »
Good discussion on Second Captains on this the other. Think there's a fundamental lack of understanding of why people at all levels of sport dope. I think very few people expressly dope in the hope of financial reward. They dope because they want to be better for whatever reason, to shine and to win. The financial rewards that come with that are a mere bonus

As for your man, f**k him and his "oh I wasnt educated about doping" nonsense. He's offered no excuse of explanation for the presence of a substance that has precisely zero chance of being interested accidentally in his system. The fact he returned to the county panel at 35 after years away and has subsequently tested positive would make you question how long he'd been at it.
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

Angelo

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #209 on: May 02, 2020, 12:19:58 PM »
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

What the hell are u on about

Presumably it's that rugby is a sports where meatheads just try and charge through each other, association football is a game where you try and elude the opposition, Gaelic football probably comes somewhere in the middle but more toward association football.