Author Topic: Another Kerry player fails a doping test  (Read 21034 times)

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #180 on: April 29, 2020, 02:58:15 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Hold up. It is banned at club level and the GAA can arrange testing at any level tomorrow if it wants. The only amateur sports people I am aware of being tested are cyclists (for obvious reasons) and NCAA (and I assume a scenario where an amateur side qualify for Europe in soccer). I think we all agree we ate nowhrre near cycling problems. So is the expense and confrontation worth it?

Sports Ireland test in professional sport, and the grants put intercounty players in that bracket.

shark

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #181 on: April 29, 2020, 06:21:36 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Hold up. It is banned at club level and the GAA can arrange testing at any level tomorrow if it wants. The only amateur sports people I am aware of being tested are cyclists (for obvious reasons) and NCAA (and I assume a scenario where an amateur side qualify for Europe in soccer). I think we all agree we ate nowhrre near cycling problems. So is the expense and confrontation worth it?

Sports Ireland test in professional sport, and the grants put intercounty players in that bracket.

Athletics too. Sports Ireland will only test those who are carded (receive grants), however a non-carded athlete could for example qualify for the European Cross Country championships and be randomly selected for a test after the race.

Gael85

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #182 on: April 29, 2020, 11:13:26 PM »
They couldn't even find a picture of him wearing the jersey. The pics I've seen must be at least five years old, maybe more. Whitewash

He last played championship for Carlow in 05.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #183 on: April 29, 2020, 11:17:41 PM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Hold up. It is banned at club level and the GAA can arrange testing at any level tomorrow if it wants. The only amateur sports people I am aware of being tested are cyclists (for obvious reasons) and NCAA (and I assume a scenario where an amateur side qualify for Europe in soccer). I think we all agree we ate nowhrre near cycling problems. So is the expense and confrontation worth it?

Sports Ireland test in professional sport, and the grants put intercounty players in that bracket.

Athletics too. Sports Ireland will only test those who are carded (receive grants), however a non-carded athlete could for example qualify for the European Cross Country championships and be randomly selected for a test after the race.

So not amateur athletes per say, but an amateur can qualify for an elite competition and fall into the regieme then?

So nothing stopping you juicing away your pre season? Hard one to call.

Never beat the deeler

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #184 on: April 30, 2020, 01:42:23 AM »


this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

A well known LoI player got 2 years for pissing off home without pissing. He failed to give a sample, 2 years, thats how seriously thay take it. He is banned from all soccer globally for 2 years. No dropping down to the pub leagues. Not insured to train .Thats how it works, they may only test at a certsin level, but if you are caught, thats you.

You can't have a situation where an open and shut steroid abuser can get caught and play away at club.

How many times did he miss a test before he got banned?

One. Failed to provide a sample. Went home. 2 years.

I always thought you got a couple of chances before a ban. Every day is a school day

Same as Rio. He failed the test by failing to take the test. I think the severity was he was in the room with a bottle of water and just decided to leave.

I must have been getting confused with USADA and their three strikes policy, though to be fair that's based on an athlete not updating USADA where they will be at any given time (you could see how that could easily be missed once) as opposed to leaving a game without giving a sample after being asked to.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/23/us-sprinter-christian-coleman-ban-alleged-missed-drug-tests
Hasta la victoria siempre

tonto1888

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #185 on: April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #186 on: April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

marty34

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #187 on: April 30, 2020, 09:58:55 AM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

So what do we do - let everybody try these substances.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #188 on: April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM »
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

marty34

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #189 on: April 30, 2020, 10:21:35 AM »
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.
 
Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #190 on: April 30, 2020, 10:32:42 AM »
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.
 
Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?


You don't play sport do you?

Yes, that is the rules when someone is sent off. There is no rule regarding club player drug testing and thus that is the way it should stay, so the floodgates are already open. As you put it.

There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. You might be great individually, which could, maybe result in a county call up where you'll be subjected to testing like everyone else on a higher platform. Even then, what do you get? A GPA grant? Trust me, you don't get that much a month from it, regional rugby player contracts aren't that much and they easily dwarf a county GPA grant.....and you don't have to bother going to work to top up.






Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #191 on: April 30, 2020, 11:16:42 AM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let’s say it was an international rugby player. You couldn’t ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.
That is not correct. The grants system makes intercounty players professional from a SI perspective. They recieve money. And a lot more GAA players get money than rugby players.

This was explicitly the deal when the GPA obtained the grants.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #192 on: April 30, 2020, 11:19:04 AM »
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.
 
Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?


You don't play sport do you?

Yes, that is the rules when someone is sent off. There is no rule regarding club player drug testing and thus that is the way it should stay, so the floodgates are already open. As you put it.

There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. You might be great individually, which could, maybe result in a county call up where you'll be subjected to testing like everyone else on a higher platform. Even then, what do you get? A GPA grant? Trust me, you don't get that much a month from it, regional rugby player contracts aren't that much and they easily dwarf a county GPA grant.....and you don't have to bother going to work to top up.

So why do rugby playets dope then? Why do ayers bust a gut to get on tbe county panrl jn general? I accept in general doping is of less value to a team sport player than an athlete in an individual discipline, but your logic is flawed.

shark

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #193 on: April 30, 2020, 11:23:58 AM »
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Hold up. It is banned at club level and the GAA can arrange testing at any level tomorrow if it wants. The only amateur sports people I am aware of being tested are cyclists (for obvious reasons) and NCAA (and I assume a scenario where an amateur side qualify for Europe in soccer). I think we all agree we ate nowhrre near cycling problems. So is the expense and confrontation worth it?

Sports Ireland test in professional sport, and the grants put intercounty players in that bracket.

Athletics too. Sports Ireland will only test those who are carded (receive grants), however a non-carded athlete could for example qualify for the European Cross Country championships and be randomly selected for a test after the race.

So not amateur athletes per say, but an amateur can qualify for an elite competition and fall into the regieme then?

So nothing stopping you juicing away your pre season? Hard one to call.

Yep it is.
But it's a result of the limitation of grants for athletics. In the example above an athlete would need to come in the top 8 in the Euro X-Country to get the lowest level of grant payable. There are athletes out there, competing at an objectively high level, who receive less funding that a hurler from Leitrim.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
« Reply #194 on: April 30, 2020, 12:01:21 PM »
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.
 
Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?


You don't play sport do you?

Yes, that is the rules when someone is sent off. There is no rule regarding club player drug testing and thus that is the way it should stay, so the floodgates are already open. As you put it.

There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. You might be great individually, which could, maybe result in a county call up where you'll be subjected to testing like everyone else on a higher platform. Even then, what do you get? A GPA grant? Trust me, you don't get that much a month from it, regional rugby player contracts aren't that much and they easily dwarf a county GPA grant.....and you don't have to bother going to work to top up.

So why do rugby playets dope then? Why do ayers bust a gut to get on tbe county panrl jn general? I accept in general doping is of less value to a team sport player than an athlete in an individual discipline, but your logic is flawed.

You would have to ask Rugby players the reasons behind doping. However, it is a physically more demanding game than GAA sports over more aspects. Contact is key - more contact = more recovery. The contact I'm sure we can all agree has lessned massively since say, the 00s in our games, whereas in Rugby it's got bigger and bigger. Doping massively increases the rate of recovery. Having played both I can say with a fair degree of confidence that the need to dope in GAA is much, much less than in Rugby Union (League is another level).

Some people dope because they don't have the necessary size to compete in their chosen sport, they feel pressured. Some maybe like to feel big. Some want to be the best they can be. It's not always about the money aspect. But of course that comes with performance.


« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 12:14:17 PM by GetOverTheBar »