Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?

[rosnarun]

It won't be happening this year. Mayo will bow out before the last 8 in my opinion.

isn't that what you said last year and the year before and the year before........
cheer up championship is about to start you can at least be excited for another 10 days or so
if sligo win ill join you in the depression

[Kickham csc]

When do they release Meath 96 greatest hits collection.
The problem is nowadays many of us forget what real dirt is. This dirt hurt.

The problem is that over the past 20 years, the GAA has implemented a program of cleaning up the game and removing any physically out of the game. But they have been doing it by implementing a half pregnant strategy, i.e creating the environment for dark arts to exist and not fully punishing it 

The unintended result of this is the establishment of a more subtle "dirty play", holding, blocking, pulling and trash talking.

In my mind, if the refs don't  punish the holding and pulling, then it's unfair to punish players who react.

The incident where Connelly and Keegan ripped their jerseys apart, and the umpires, linesmen, and ref saw it and didn't punish any of them was a disgrace. If players are allowed to apply negative tactics  then we have to allow players to defend themselves without fear of red cards.

In other words, start reffing football like hurling games. That would cut out a load of crap.

[criostlinn]

When do they release Meath 96 greatest hits collection.
The problem is nowadays many of us forget what real dirt is. This dirt hurt.

The problem is that over the past 20 years, the GAA has implemented a program of cleaning up the game and removing any physically out of the game. But they have been doing it by implementing a half pregnant strategy, i.e creating the environment for dark arts to exist and not fully punishing it 

The unintended result of this is the establishment of a more subtle "dirty play", holding, blocking, pulling and trash talking.

In my mind, if the refs don't  punish the holding and pulling, then it's unfair to punish players who react.

The incident where Connelly and Keegan ripped their jerseys apart, and the umpires, linesmen, and ref saw it and didn't punish any of them was a disgrace. If players are allowed to apply negative tactics  then we have to allow players to defend themselves without fear of red cards.

In other words, start reffing football like hurling games. That would cut out a load of crap.

Did he not give them both a yellow card ?

[Kickham csc]

When do they release Meath 96 greatest hits collection.
The problem is nowadays many of us forget what real dirt is. This dirt hurt.

The problem is that over the past 20 years, the GAA has implemented a program of cleaning up the game and removing any physically out of the game. But they have been doing it by implementing a half pregnant strategy, i.e creating the environment for dark arts to exist and not fully punishing it 

The unintended result of this is the establishment of a more subtle "dirty play", holding, blocking, pulling and trash talking.

In my mind, if the refs don't  punish the holding and pulling, then it's unfair to punish players who react.

The incident where Connelly and Keegan ripped their jerseys apart, and the umpires, linesmen, and ref saw it and didn't punish any of them was a disgrace. If players are allowed to apply negative tactics  then we have to allow players to defend themselves without fear of red cards.

In other words, start reffing football like hurling games. That would cut out a load of crap.

Did he not give them both a yellow card ?

He did, but the proper punishment should have been a red or black, pulling holding off the ball, somebody started it and should have got a black, but when they started ripping the jersey off each other, their should have been a red.
 
Neither happened, and frustration starts to rise

[Syferus]

When do they release Meath 96 greatest hits collection.
The problem is nowadays many of us forget what real dirt is. This dirt hurt.

The problem is that over the past 20 years, the GAA has implemented a program of cleaning up the game and removing any physically out of the game. But they have been doing it by implementing a half pregnant strategy, i.e creating the environment for dark arts to exist and not fully punishing it 

The unintended result of this is the establishment of a more subtle "dirty play", holding, blocking, pulling and trash talking.

In my mind, if the refs don't  punish the holding and pulling, then it's unfair to punish players who react.

The incident where Connelly and Keegan ripped their jerseys apart, and the umpires, linesmen, and ref saw it and didn't punish any of them was a disgrace. If players are allowed to apply negative tactics  then we have to allow players to defend themselves without fear of red cards.

In other words, start reffing football like hurling games. That would cut out a load of crap.

Did he not give them both a yellow card ?

He did, but the proper punishment should have been a red or black, pulling holding off the ball, somebody started it and should have got a black, but when they started ripping the jersey off each other, their should have been a red.
 
Neither happened, and frustration starts to rise

So you reckon the ref should have ruined the game?

Frontier justice, Marty Duffy style.

Matchups like JOD-Higgins and Connolly-Keegan are why neutrals bother to tune in in the first place. It's when you get to the Philly McMahon, Star and Ricey style stuff that it becomes an unwatchable mess.

[Kickham csc]

When do they release Meath 96 greatest hits collection.
The problem is nowadays many of us forget what real dirt is. This dirt hurt.

The problem is that over the past 20 years, the GAA has implemented a program of cleaning up the game and removing any physically out of the game. But they have been doing it by implementing a half pregnant strategy, i.e creating the environment for dark arts to exist and not fully punishing it 

The unintended result of this is the establishment of a more subtle "dirty play", holding, blocking, pulling and trash talking.

In my mind, if the refs don't  punish the holding and pulling, then it's unfair to punish players who react.

The incident where Connelly and Keegan ripped their jerseys apart, and the umpires, linesmen, and ref saw it and didn't punish any of them was a disgrace. If players are allowed to apply negative tactics  then we have to allow players to defend themselves without fear of red cards.

In other words, start reffing football like hurling games. That would cut out a load of crap.

Did he not give them both a yellow card ?

He did, but the proper punishment should have been a red or black, pulling holding off the ball, somebody started it and should have got a black, but when they started ripping the jersey off each other, their should have been a red.
 
Neither happened, and frustration starts to rise

So you reckon the ref should have ruined the game?

Frontier justice, Marty Duffy style.

Matchups like JOD-Higgins and Connolly-Keegan are why neutrals bother to tune in in the first place. It's when you get to the Philly McMahon, Star and Ricey style stuff that it becomes an unwatchable mess.

No, but if a player is being pulled and dragged and then reacts, then he shouldn't walk either.

In my original post my position is clear, start applying the hurling approach for referring football, let the players sort it out.

At the moment, a player can not stand up for himself as he will more than likely get sent off, and the refs aren't protecting them. something got to give

[Fuzzman]

Can I just check here what some people are saying?

Are you condoning that it's OK to drag a man down to the ground or continually be pulling at him and not letting him make runs off the ball to reduce his impact on the game? You think this is fair enough and doesn't deserve a yellow or black card?

Do you in turn then think the player being fouled should stand back and let it happen and not react in case it ends up as a scuffle on the ground or pulling the jerseys off each other like we've seen before.

To me it's pretty damn simple, in that there are rules already there to deal with this sort of stuff but the refs and other officials are not using them, maybe cos they don't want to spoil the game.

If I was a ref I'd be telling my linesmen and umpires before the game to be watching out for that sort of stuff and if it's spotted they will be yellow and black cards issued right away like what happened in the final replay last year.

[Kickham csc]

Can I just check here what some people are saying?

Are you condoning that it's OK to drag a man down to the ground or continually be pulling at him and not letting him make runs off the ball to reduce his impact on the game? You think this is fair enough and doesn't deserve a yellow or black card?

I think that it is not fair enough, but it happens in every game and is being let go. Current rules should either be fully applied, i.e. hand out the black / yellow / red cards consistently

Do you in turn then think the player being fouled should stand back and let it happen and not react in case it ends up as a scuffle on the ground or pulling the jerseys off each other like we've seen before.

I think that if the rules are not being applied, then the player being fouled should be allowed to react, and not be punished

To me it's pretty damn simple, in that there are rules already there to deal with this sort of stuff but the refs and other officials are not using them, maybe cos they don't want to spoil the game. Agreed

If I was a ref I'd be telling my linesmen and umpires before the game to be watching out for that sort of stuff and if it's spotted they will be yellow and black cards issued right away like what happened in the final replay last year. Agreed

Was at the D3 /4 finals this year in Croke Park. Watched a half back running through to get forward, who was jumped on and pulled to the ground, right in front of the linesman and the group I was with.

He let the f@#king thing go. I started screaming at him, telling him to do his job, and he turned around to me and shrugged and said he didn't want to ruin the game..... WTHolyF#$K!!!!!

I was frustrated watching it and I was a neutral, imagine how the player being dragged down felt.  The player hit out and landed a punch and the linesman put up his flag.  We told him in pretty direct terms to put the flag down since he was letting the pulling go, and he did.....again WTHolyF$%K!!!!!!

[Fuzzman]

Unreal Kickham, just unreal.
That explains the problem in a nutshell that the officials are happy to stand by and let our best players be prevented from playing the game just because they won't apply the rules properly.

Yet so many on here don't want to seem to address the problem or even admit there is a problem.

[macdanger2]

I don't think anyone had said it's not a problem Fuzzman, the problem is not simply lee Keegan as you seem to think - that's why I said earlier that to discuss it properly, you need to remove the personalities

[MayoBuck]

Unreal Kickham, just unreal.
That explains the problem in a nutshell that the officials are happy to stand by and let our best players be prevented from playing the game just because they won't apply the rules properly.

Yet so many on here don't want to seem to address the problem or even admit there is a problem.

If you really wanted an objective debate on cleaning up our game, you wouldn't have titled the thread as you did.

Why don't we also talk about the verbal sledging that certain players/teams are very proficient in. The aim of that is to get a reaction from your marker so it's no different. Referees never punish sledging. Keegan doesn't get involved in this.

There are also several players out there very fond of the closed fist tackle or have been involved in other nasty late hits and have never been punished accordingly. Keegan has never been involved in any act of serious foul play. 

[Fuzzman]

I said there are a few other players who do what Keegan does but my initial point was to discuss him and Connolly's ongoing battle which I can't quite believe has been allowed to develop as it has.
As expected nobody from Mayo has admitted that Keegan is doing this pre-mediated and that most people are just turning a blind eye to it. To get away with it is bad enough but to win player of the year on top of that says a lot about how we view things.

There is no doubt he is an excellent player as well and I think Mayo are not using him properly as he showed he can be a very effective attacker as well.

[PW Nally]

I said there are a few other players who do what Keegan does but my initial point was to discuss him and Connolly's ongoing battle which I can't quite believe has been allowed to develop as it has.
As expected nobody from Mayo has admitted that Keegan is doing this pre-mediated and that most people are just turning a blind eye to it. To get away with it is bad enough but to win player of the year on top of that says a lot about how we view things.

There is no doubt he is an excellent player as well and I think Mayo are not using him properly as he showed he can be a very effective attacker as well.

Jaysus Fuzzman you and your Dublin buddies love doing the media job on Keegan!

[criostlinn]

I said there are a few other players who do what Keegan does but my initial point was to discuss him and Connolly's ongoing battle which I can't quite believe has been allowed to develop as it has.
As expected nobody from Mayo has admitted that Keegan is doing this pre-mediated and that most people are just turning a blind eye to it. To get away with it is bad enough but to win player of the year on top of that says a lot about how we view things.

There is no doubt he is an excellent player as well and I think Mayo are not using him properly as he showed he can be a very effective attacker as well.

Funny thing about it is even the rte cameras are ignoring Keegans carry on. Don't remember any footage over the last few years showing the behaviour you say Keegan is at. Connolly on the other hand....

This just seems to be picked by the Dublin ex players and social media warriors and a couple of Tymoans who swear Sean Kavanagh was provoked by Lee Keegan into clothelslining Aiden O'Shea

[imtommygunn]

This is a very odd thread. 

Keegan is a victim of the press and this thread illustrates it. Is keegan worse than philly mcmahon or johnny cooper? I wouldn't have thought so. He's definitely not as bad as justin mcmahon or the donegal full back mcgee (he is not even in that ball park). Kerry have a few boys in that league too. So why keegan? Mainly because he is so good i would have thought.

I am not from mayo or even near it either but the ridicule the fella takes is ridiculous. He's the best half back about. He clashed with connolly - who hasn't. He clashed with sean cavanagh - so have plenty. Cavanagh isn't massively dirty but he is a very clumsy tackler.