Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[Newbridge Exile]

I just cannot fathom the thinking behind giving Armagh uncontested kick outs for most of the first half ,  Dan Higgins and Ryan Mulholland did well when they came on

[Stickittotheman]

It's hard to say whether the 2 goals we scored papered over the cracks of a poor enough performance or if we were just getting into the groove and ran out of time. 10 points behind at one stage, then 13 at a point in the 2nd half is not good enough for the players we have. We should never be that far behind giving ourselves an absolute mountain to climb.

Next week against Galway might be either the turning point or the game where the Tally experiment lies in tatters. It's not quite a must win but it is a must not lose.

[Estimator]

The kickouts at both ends of the field are  still killing us... And the fact that its so obvious is more annoying.

Once Rafferty was forced to think about the kicks he started to struggle.

McKinless had a couple of opportunities to hit shorts in the first half, but either didn't fancy it or didn't see it.

Toner will run all day, but at times he was completely mismatched on kickouts ended up on Duffy in midfield a few times

Maybe Armagh switched off, but Derry started running at pace and looking for the forward pass in the last 10mins. Higgins and Glass took there goals well, unfortunately it was Rogers on the end of 3 of the other goal opportunities. Rafferty made a couple of decent saves too.

McGuigan's and Glass's wides were costly too at the stage of the game.

Thought Glass would've come off - even for a check - after that hit in the middle of the field.

Hopefully the likes of Murray and Bradley will be available for the next two games.

[Ryan O]

If the breach is "accidental" it's a free from the half way line.

I thought if there is a breach and the player doesn't interfere with play it on half way line, but it was Conaty that caused the breach and he had the ball. Thought was a shocking call.
Conor Glass breach in second half and ended with 13 yard free.

Thought Hurson was very poor for both teams today,

[Topmarks]

Im willing to listen to anyone who has an idea what our kickouts strategy is and why it hasn't improved all year. The same goes for this zonal nonsense on opposition kickouts. Under Gallagher we pushed up and made the kick outs a battle and a lot of our scores came from it. Not sure what happens next week.

[Ryan O]

Im willing to listen to anyone who has an idea what our kickouts strategy is and why it hasn't improved all year. The same goes for this zonal nonsense on opposition kickouts. Under Gallagher we pushed up and made the kick outs a battle and a lot of our scores came from it. Not sure what happens next week.

Is the main problem that the keepers we currently have on the pitch aren't capable of implementing a proper strategy? Its sounds harsh but Ben had some options today and I genuinely think he didn't even see them.
Also if the midfielders are instructed to break the ball in midfield sometime we might decide to put a couple of men in front to pick up breaking ball?

[Wildweasel74]

Armagh 2 goals were shocking also, 2nd one, Armagh never let u cut inside. In related to kickouts. I was behind the nets, every Derry kickout he telegraphing where he's hitting them as he doesn't line up straight on the kickout. Armagh knew the direction he was hitting the ball 10secs before he hit it. Derry need to force the Armagh kickouts long. Higgins need start Midfield the nxt day. I move Glass to No.6 as I think  he can play either position but Rodgers better at Midfield than No.6.

[tbrick18]

That was a 4 point hammering.
There's so many things not working it's difficult to pinpoint any 1 thing in particular.

Kickouts didn't have the accuracy needed. Always seemed to drift away from where intended. Also too slow and obvious. Couldn't do much for the goals, but the first goal Armagh men around us thought it was a square ball. The 2nd was overcarroed by a mile, which was even more frustrating as ethan had just been blown up for a marginal overcarry costing us a point.

Conceding the Armagh kickout was scandalous.

Ethan and Paul cassidy's best game in a year.

But too many players looked not interested to me.
We had no drive in attack, next to no running off the shoulder. Tohill worked hard to get into position in ff then make the runs but not 1 ball was played into him.
We seem afraid to shoot or to work the back door cut when it looks on.
We're playing wit a total lack of confidence and I think at lest some of that is down to belief in the tactics.
This zonal defending isn't working. Or transition to attack is too slow.
We can't win a breaking ball either.

2 years ago e were getting scores from everywhere as we attacked in waves fromm all over the field, corner backs and half backs driving forward. We do t seems to be able to do that now.

Positives we're mostly from the young players. I thought mcgurk did well and forbes too.
In the 2nd half those runs started happening from the young fresh legs.
I'd be tempted to start them next day out, because we need to change something.
I had hoped as players filtered back and got more time to train we'd regain some intensity, but it's not there. I'm not sure now even if we had Lynch, Clucky and mckinless playing it would make a lot of difference.
I wasn't expecting to win given the form we've been in but I was hoping for a performance. We got about 15 mins of a performance when Armagh took the foot off after going 13 up.

Armagh didn't even have to be that good. They are  very well organised though and our slow laboured play is lost against a well organised side.

I know Tally has to find the positives, but 2 goals papered over a poor display imo and there's as much fault in the tactics as there is from the players.

We've certainly missed our opportunity with another group of generational players.

[Mario]

Very negative tbrick. A few tactical tweaks on the kickouts and a couple of players back would make a big difference. I certainly didn't see a lack of effort from any player. I think we have a good chance v Galway.

The game got away from us in the third quarter but outside that I thought we did well first half against the slight breeze and was happy to go in 3 down, we also finished very strong, which was a welcome change from the league.

You say we've missed our opportunity like this team has won nothing. Only one team can win the AI and even at our best that was unlikely.

[Wildweasel74]

Main problem is they carry the ball out of defence mostly through C McFaul, but he slows the attacks all down, we never tried a kick pass into the 3 man forward line on the break the entire game. We still play as its the old rules. I think when u see Tyrone turning over Donegal yesterday we missed the boat with O'Rourke, but he didn't want come with the Tyrone job coming up this year. It actually shows u, a experience winning  county manager with a grip on today's tactics is nearly more important than having good players. Big thing missing to me with Derry is the drive, intensity, and will to never give up that been there from Gallaghers time

[Topmarks]

There is no lack of effort but there is a lack of cohesion and confidence. The only way to break it is by winning a game and another and so on. I feel for the players as it's a crap period, just hoping we can rally together and perform as they can and hopefully a result or two will come.

Not really sure what happens with Tally. The county board will not want rid of him, but if this continues he will have to go. His tactics are at best questionable. He's setting us up like an inferior team, standing off opposition kickouts, zonal defending etc before a ball is kicked. I don't seem him as a big motivator in the mould of a McGuiness, Gallagher type either. Also, has any player actually improved since he's been about? I've seen quite a few lads not playing to the levels we've seen previously. Time will tell but if this goes south in the next couple of weeks I don't want to hear excuses because he's had time now, didn't allow boys to go back to their clubs and I haven't seen any real improvement yet.

[Stickittotheman]

Main problem is they carry the ball out of defence mostly through C McFaul, but he slows the attacks all down, we never tried a kick pass into the 3 man forward line on the break the entire game. We still play as its the old rules. I think when u see Tyrone turning over Donegal yesterday we missed the boat with O'Rourke, but he didn't want come with the Tyrone job coming up this year. It actually shows u, a experience winning  county manager with a grip on today's tactics is nearly more important than having good players. Big thing missing to me with Derry is the drive, intensity, and will to never give up that been there from Gallaghers time

O'Rourke knew that this team waw full of Gallagher men. They still haven't let it go fully. You can see it where even with a defeat they trusted Gallagher implicitly. They wilted when Donegal walloped us under Harte. Didn't believe in what they were doing. Now with Tally it's much the same. I see drive and desire but not sure I see confidence in themselves and the management team. Gallagher installed a belief that was unshakeable.

I said it before but the biggest loss has been Meenagh. Gallagher is finished and it was imperative that we kept Meenagh. I would do everything to get him back. He is the missing link.......

[Wildweasel74]

Players bound be questioning why we giving up Armagh kickouts and playing zonal marking, supporters are questioning it. Harte problem last year was when we kept gettig caught out with the Goalkeeper out in ridiculous  positions on kickouts  he was too stubborn it change it, and it cost Derry bad. O'Rourke was never going pass a job where drive time 15mins each way

[tbrick18]

Very negative tbrick. A few tactical tweaks on the kickouts and a couple of players back would make a big difference. I certainly didn't see a lack of effort from any player. I think we have a good chance v Galway.

The game got away from us in the third quarter but outside that I thought we did well first half against the slight breeze and was happy to go in 3 down, we also finished very strong, which was a welcome change from the league.

You say we've missed our opportunity like this team has won nothing. Only one team can win the AI and even at our best that was unlikely.

Maybe I'm being slightly harsh by saying lack of interest, maybe lack of faith in the tactics being employed is a better way to describe it.
There's no point saying it any other way, we were awful.

We haven't evolved with the rules at all.
Admittedly not having Lynch is really hampering us, but conceding kickouts has no excuse. We're set up to try to not get beat rather than to win the game.
The attacking plan is to get to the new D and try to work the perfect score which is easy to defend against unless you bring the keeper up to create an overlap. Everything feels flat.

We did seem to have a plan for what we do near the hooter when we have the ball, but it didnt work out when Tohill blasted over at the end of the first half, but outside of that I didnt see any improvement on tactics since the Donegal game.
Someone mentioned Meenagh, 100% if we can get him back that would be huge. At the very least, we need to shake up the back room team to have someone with some real tactical nous. If we dont win a game, I dont see how Tally can remain but on the flip side if he goes, who is going to want to come in?

We have the players so its so frustrating to see us playing the way we are.

[Wildweasel74]

Tohill should put that in the net,it was a very bad miss, i think they have to go with Higgins in midfield from here on. Tohill had alot of chances but blows hot and cold. He's there to win ball in midfield but doesnt get off the ground and gets under too many balls. Plus goes up with one hand all the time. Dont know why he was tried at full forward. Hasn't the ball handling to play there, plus we never kicked one in to see if it worked. He's ok for 10/15 mins of the bench.