Author Topic: UK General Election 2017  (Read 40484 times)

T Fearon

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1170 on: June 19, 2017, 12:23:22 PM »
The GFA was a fudge.Has it not always been the case that NI was part of the UK because a majority there favoured this.That implies a United Ireland has been available anytime before or after the GFA,if a majority so desires and accordingly,if memory serves me right,a border referendum took place in the early 70s.

There isn't and never has been a desire for unity from unionists (now supplemented by a significant number of Northern catholics who are economic unionists),or any Dublin government of any hue,far less a plan.The fact that the North is under Dublin's Foreign Affairs brief says it all.

yellowcard

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1171 on: June 19, 2017, 12:34:58 PM »
Er if N I is independent there will be no point in marking out territory with flags of other countries.An independent North makes Unionism and Nationalism redundant.


If you think nationalists and unionist's will cease aspiring to be part of either an Irish unified state or the UK if an independent country is declared tomorrow, you're living in cloud cuckoo land. That's ok for you to say as an Alliance Party supporter, but the vast majority of people will not stop aspiring to be part of a reunified state or the UK just because an independent country is declared. 

armaghniac

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1172 on: June 19, 2017, 12:35:59 PM »
There isn't and never has been a desire for unity from unionists

Thanks for that insight, a lot of posters here would not have known that.

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(now supplemented by a significant number of Northern catholics who are economic unionists)

These people are likely to be pretty fickle on the matter. Once they thought NI more prosperous than the 26 counties, now they fear the loss of handouts which still leave them worse off than those in free Ireland.

Quote
The fact that the North is under Dublin's Foreign Affairs brief says it all.

The North is under the rule of a foreign government hence Foreign Affairs deal with that government.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

T Fearon

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1173 on: June 19, 2017, 01:04:17 PM »
Yes.And the abolition of Articles 2 and 3,by the Dublin Govt in the South,after being mandated by 90% of the electorate there,coupled with the overwhelming support of northern nationalists for the GFA,means that Irish nationalism freely consents to British Rule in the North.

seafoid

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1174 on: June 19, 2017, 01:37:37 PM »
Yes.And the abolition of Articles 2 and 3,by the Dublin Govt in the South,after being mandated by 90% of the electorate there,coupled with the overwhelming support of northern nationalists for the GFA,means that Irish nationalism freely consents to British Rule in the North.
until the peoplé decide otherwise.
Everyone on the island is Irish meanwhile.  Says it on the passport.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

T Fearon

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1175 on: June 19, 2017, 02:01:33 PM »
It doesn't matter a damn.I cannot think of any other nation in the world that freely seceded hitherto national territory under no duress,without as much as a whimper in 1998.

yellowcard

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1176 on: June 19, 2017, 02:18:22 PM »
It doesn't matter a damn.I cannot think of any other nation in the world that freely seceded hitherto national territory under no duress,without as much as a whimper in 1998.

Did you express this outrage at the time?

T Fearon

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1177 on: June 19, 2017, 02:27:14 PM »
No.I was totally immersed in Armagh's renaissance in the late 90s.

But you see the utter waste of time aspiring or waiting for a United Ireland

yellowcard

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1178 on: June 19, 2017, 02:35:52 PM »
No.I was totally immersed in Armagh's renaissance in the late 90s.

But you see the utter waste of time aspiring or waiting for a United Ireland

It's going to happen , it is inevitable at some point and I'm surer than ever after the events of the last 12 months. You might see it as a waste of time but I and I'm sure many other nationalists don't either. If you are around to see it you can sulk in the corner becasue your dream of an independent state is dead and your N Ireland culture will get watered down but you will just have to grin and bear it.

Applesisapples

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1179 on: June 19, 2017, 02:38:41 PM »
The North unfortunately is a zero sum state, the Unionists will not allow any semblance of Irishness lest it dilutes Britishness. The GFA operates irrespective of the sovereign government. Presumably if the ROI takes the reins any changes to the assembly etc would be by agreement and MPs would become TDs. The way Unionists are currently playing things is actually driving younger Nationalist voter to the SF cause. The SDLP are helping themselves either and the sour grapes in defeat of Ritchie, Maginniss etc shows a disconect with nationalist voting realities. There is more hope of the pope marrying another man than Tony's idea of a separate NI identity neither side want it.

T Fearon

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1180 on: June 19, 2017, 03:04:17 PM »
Sorry,but I don't see any hope in the continued tired Unionist V Nationalist template,which divides and tribalises,has now resulted in the middle ground being annihilated.The fact that this is based on unrequited allegiances to two sovereign entities,neither of whom wants nor understands the Northern Irish, renders the scenario even more nonsensical.

There will not be a United Ireland in my lifetime,because this outcome is not desired by Northern unionists nor the main parties in the South.I have lived right through the troubles from beginning to end,and now resent the blight this has had on my life,and that of thousands of other

seafoid

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1181 on: June 19, 2017, 03:08:03 PM »
No.I was totally immersed in Armagh's renaissance in the late 90s.

But you see the utter waste of time aspiring or waiting for a United Ireland
Your generation will pass on.
The kids will take over
This is how political change works. 
Settler states only survive via extermination.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

Avondhu star

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1182 on: June 19, 2017, 07:38:08 PM »
No.I was totally immersed in Armagh's renaissance in the late 90s.

But you see the utter waste of time aspiring or waiting for a United Ireland
Your generation will pass on.
The kids will take over
This is how political change works. 
Settler states only survive via extermination.

Have you been spending too much time out in the sun?
Warning. Don't try this at home unless in the company of a responsible adult

Eamonnca1

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1183 on: June 20, 2017, 06:55:40 PM »
What do yiz think of the chances of another election within a year and Corbyn building on his progress so far to get over the line? If the LibDems get a better leader than that bible-thumping clown they had this time then they might take a handful of seats off the Tories while they're at it. Lib-Lab-SNP coalition?

BennyCake

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1184 on: June 20, 2017, 07:02:44 PM »
What do yiz think of the chances of another election within a year and Corbyn building on his progress so far to get over the line? If the LibDems get a better leader than that bible-thumping clown they had this time then they might take a handful of seats off the Tories while they're at it. Lib-Lab-SNP coalition?

Yes the chances of another election is high. Expect plenty more Corbyn-bashing in the press from now until then to do sufficient damage.