The Health System

[macdanger2]

Anyone watch the documentary about waiting lists in the health system? Very sad to hear some of the stories behind the numbers. It seems like we've been listening to essentially the same story to some degree or another for the past 20 years regardless of who has been in government. By far and away the biggest scandal in the country over that period but not a single large scale protest about it.

Having been in the health system with my daughter recently (and while the care she received was very good), one thing that struck me was the amount of times we had the exact same conversation with different nurses / doctors in a ~12 hour period was amazing - what was wrong, symptoms, etc. etc. It seems to be run in a completely haphazard manner, everyone busy but not enough actual work getting done.

I'd like to see three things being done to help resolve the problem 1) invest in technology (apparently in Macedonia, GPs have access to an online hospital booking system, we're still f*cking about with paper files; the Revenue seem to be very adept at using technology so why not the HSE?) 2) simplify the way things get done so that patients are "processed" through the system with minimal duplication & wasted effort and 3) develop a 10-20 year cross-party plan so that the overall aim doesn't change every time a new minister comes into office.

Unfortunately, I doubt any of the three will come to pass

[Farrandeelin]

Watched a bit of it. Maybe I'm totally wrong but since the HSE replaced the Health boards things have got a lot worse. These centres of excellences are hardly enamouring either. If the infrastructure was there, maybe. It's shocking how Galway is the coe for the North West region. And that's only one thing.

[armaghniac]

I'd like to see three things being done to help resolve the problem 1) invest in technology (apparently in Macedonia, GPs have access to an online hospital booking system, we're still f*cking about with paper files; the Revenue seem to be very adept at using technology so why not the HSE?) 2) simplify the way things get done so that patients are "processed" through the system with minimal duplication & wasted effort and 3) develop a 10-20 year cross-party plan so that the overall aim doesn't change every time a new minister comes into office.

It is a disgrace that they are water protests and none about the health service. Technology is of course part of the answer, but really good technology would expose the real length of the queues and so the managers and politicians involved.

[Rossfan]

Murphy and Boyd Barrett and all the loony lefties have private health insurance so couldnt give 2 flying fcuks about thepublic health system.
The  €150m foregone from the Exchequer for water would pay for an awful lot of operations.
There were loads of beds taken out of the system in 1987 and never replaced.
There are 1m more people in the State now so all of those beds need replacement plus more besides.
That all costs €s but in the neo liberal world tax cuts for the well heeled are no 1 priority.
English NHS is getting worse by the day as it's being starved of funding and of course guns are more important than health care in basket case America.

[seafoid]

I'd like to see three things being done to help resolve the problem 1) invest in technology (apparently in Macedonia, GPs have access to an online hospital booking system, we're still f*cking about with paper files; the Revenue seem to be very adept at using technology so why not the HSE?) 2) simplify the way things get done so that patients are "processed" through the system with minimal duplication & wasted effort and 3) develop a 10-20 year cross-party plan so that the overall aim doesn't change every time a new minister comes into office.

It is a disgrace that they are water protests and none about the health service. Technology is of course part of the answer, but really good technology would expose the real length of the queues and so the managers and politicians involved.

Healthcare has to be rationed hence the queues. Otherwise the cost as a % of GDP goes through the roof and people don't want to pay higher taxes. I think cost control is a huge issue but politicians don't have the guts to address it. You would need to see where the money is being spent and where in particular is growing. The number of people over 65 as a % of population is growing and they are really heavy on health costs. How to fund this is a big question.
Tech is no panacea either. The Irish Health system is a bit like Heathrow airport. It works but it's not coherent

[StephenC]

We spend at a Senior-Championship level on our healthcare and get Junior B level results. I struggle to see how more money is the answer. Hasn't investment in healthcare grown at an extraordinary level of the last 20 years? Why are we unable to get the same outcomes for our €s as other countries. Until we figure this out, I reckon we are doomed to more of the same.

[shark]

There are some positives. Our cancer care is excellent and our paediatric care too. But there is so much wrong that we could go on to 1000 pages here. Each successive government seems to just add more and more problems and more and more unworkable solutions. There is a certain level of intransigence from within the HSE that doesn't help, and the Irish obsession with running to A&E for every little ailment only adds to the problem. But that's a negative effect of too many medical cards in the system, which is largely a result of state sponsored fraud by TDs who throw them out like confetti.

I'll add to the thread with one more outrage. Private beds in public hospitals. I don't pay for private health insurance for myself, yet I support it for others through my tax bill.

[armaghniac]

I'll add to the thread with one more outrage. Private beds in public hospitals. I don't pay for private health insurance for myself, yet I support it for others through my tax bill.

But you don't, the private insurance payer pays taxes also and also makes a private contribution (now a substantial one) to the cost of the bed, so he is paying more towards the hospital than you are and subsidising you.

[Rossfan]

Doesn't the insurance payer get tax relief on his/her premium?

[No wides]

8 Replies on the health system 67 replied on the Irish Language Act - show where the priorities are on this board!

[StephenC]

Shows where posters are from on this board.

[Lar Naparka]

Doesn't the insurance payer get tax relief on his/her premium?

No. The premium anyone with private health cover pays has tax relief already factored in.
In other words, the VHI and others say that if one was to claim tax back, the premium would cost 20% more.
Furthermore, PAYE workers pay PRSI whether they have private cover or not. But those with private policies are not eligible to make any claim based on their PRSI contributions.
Daylight robbery!

[Rossfan]

They've got the tax relief built into the amount they pay then = they're getting relief@20%.
What can I claim for paying PRSI? Free teeth cleaning once a year?

[Asal Mor]

We spend at a Senior-Championship level on our healthcare and get Junior B level results. I struggle to see how more money is the answer. Hasn't investment in healthcare grown at an extraordinary level of the last 20 years? Why are we unable to get the same outcomes for our €s as other countries. Until we figure this out, I reckon we are doomed to more of the same.

It needs to be procedure focused. I'm sure we all know anecdotally of people who were admitted with a view to getting a procedure done and ended up waiting for weeks for it to happen. That's a massive waste of resources. People deteriorating on waiting lists for years waiting for a procedure that just takes a couple of hours is insane and unnecessary with the vast amount being spent on health. We need a system that processes people as quickly as possible and where the emphasis is on getting procedures done. The obsession with people on trolleys/beds figures is pointless. Too many hospital wards are acting as nursing homes  for people who'd be happier and healthier at home.

It's also clear that, like the homeless crisis and the hopeless situation of those working hard on low incomes who will never be able to buy their own home, the majority of middle-class politicians aren't really that fussed about the problems of wretched poor people. They're obliged to make the right noises when the media spotlight shows just how horrendous things are, and Harris spoke about how heartbroken he was after watching that documentary, in one of the most unconvincing portrayals of a human being I've seen.

[Lar Naparka]

They've got the tax relief built into the amount they pay then = they're getting relief@20%.
What can I claim for paying PRSI? Free teeth cleaning once a year?

No,they get sweet FA. Say I'm paying €2,000 towards my policy; If I was looking for tax relief @20%, then I'd have to pay  €2,400 so I could then claim a tax back of €400. (I know this isn't done in practice but this is the logic involved.) That would be plain crazy because I would have to wait until my P60 comes out the following year before I could get my tax back.
Anyway, bottom line is no tax back on health insurance premiums.
Dunno what you are getting for your PRSI contributions but I'm getting damn all- not even a cent after paying in for over 45  years. Once I got private cover, it has to pay for any health related costs.