Author Topic: Intercounty apathy a worrying trend  (Read 5382 times)

AZOffaly

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Re: Intercounty apathy a worrying trend
« Reply #150 on: January 11, 2017, 02:41:49 PM »
Of course. My point is less about the final structure than the inertia in actually trying to get it changed. We've been discussing this shit for years.

Why not say we'll do something in 2018, commit to it? Then look at the various proposals and vote upon an option to try out. There's been plenty of decent ones proposed and 9 or 10 months to discuss and analyze and choose.

True, but as I say (like a broken record I'm sure) I'd like consensus on what the problem is that is being solved. A lot of people have different ideas about current issues, and some people like Zulu have many issues that they feel would be resolved with a back to the drawing board approach. The 'what would we do if we were starting out today' argument.

They are all valid viewpoints, but unless you have a fairly widely held understanding of what exactly it is you are trying to achieve, relative to what is there now, you are never going to get something done.

Not wanting to speak for Zulu, but his preferred scenario would probably introduce tiered championships and do away with the Provincial Championships. We know straight away that they are both suggestions which will not be popular with a lot of people. So what's the point in proposing something like that. Most people don't feel that weaker counties in Sam is a problem, nor do most people feel the provincial championships are a problem.

Unless you can have a commonly accepted problem definition, you will find it very hard to get ANY change accepted other than putting lipstick on the pig, which is what the one currently being discussed is in my opinion (The 8 team round robin thing). I think there's a lot of blue skying of ideas which people think would be great, and then retrofitting them to what's there at the moment to point out the issues it would fix, even if there is no agreement that they are the actual issues in the first place.

I'd like a committee set up, featuring players, coaches, adminstrators and maybe even media now that we have a significant media rights bidding cycle. Let those people be charged , not with proposing a new solution, but with gathering a consensus as to what is actually wrong. Then you propose a solution AFTER you have common understanding of the problem.


Fuzzman

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Re: Intercounty apathy a worrying trend
« Reply #151 on: January 11, 2017, 03:21:40 PM »
Yes I agree with that AZ as quite often we are all coming at it from different view points and want different things.
I mean Dublin, Kerry and recently Mayo nearly make the semis every year and are probably not too keen to change things much. Most Ulster teams would prefer a much fairer way to get to the semifinal stage especially when they look at Kerry last year playing Tipp in the Munster final and Clare in the quarterfinal.

I would imagine in Leinster, if teams didn't have to play Dublin then it could be quite a competitive provincial championship. You could maybe say the same for Munster as Clare and Tipperary improved quite a bit last year and Tipp showed they could beat Cork.

Zulu

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Re: Intercounty apathy a worrying trend
« Reply #152 on: January 11, 2017, 05:57:16 PM »
Of course. My point is less about the final structure than the inertia in actually trying to get it changed. We've been discussing this shit for years.

Why not say we'll do something in 2018, commit to it? Then look at the various proposals and vote upon an option to try out. There's been plenty of decent ones proposed and 9 or 10 months to discuss and analyze and choose.

True, but as I say (like a broken record I'm sure) I'd like consensus on what the problem is that is being solved. A lot of people have different ideas about current issues, and some people like Zulu have many issues that they feel would be resolved with a back to the drawing board approach. The 'what would we do if we were starting out today' argument.

They are all valid viewpoints, but unless you have a fairly widely held understanding of what exactly it is you are trying to achieve, relative to what is there now, you are never going to get something done.

Not wanting to speak for Zulu, but his preferred scenario would probably introduce tiered championships and do away with the Provincial Championships. We know straight away that they are both suggestions which will not be popular with a lot of people. So what's the point in proposing something like that. Most people don't feel that weaker counties in Sam is a problem, nor do most people feel the provincial championships are a problem.

Unless you can have a commonly accepted problem definition, you will find it very hard to get ANY change accepted other than putting lipstick on the pig, which is what the one currently being discussed is in my opinion (The 8 team round robin thing). I think there's a lot of blue skying of ideas which people think would be great, and then retrofitting them to what's there at the moment to point out the issues it would fix, even if there is no agreement that they are the actual issues in the first place.

I'd like a committee set up, featuring players, coaches, adminstrators and maybe even media now that we have a significant media rights bidding cycle. Let those people be charged , not with proposing a new solution, but with gathering a consensus as to what is actually wrong. Then you propose a solution AFTER you have common understanding of the problem.

AZ, my preferred solution is not tiered championships. My changes are removing the provincials, not accommodating dual players or multiple level players. My solution means that you could provide 10+ competitive games for all minor, U21 and senior IC players in both codes, at the same time, in a structured manner.

This would solve the issue of player availability and a proper season for club players.

Eliminate burn out concerns.

Give all players a majority of games they can compete in.

Provide way more competitive games and flow to the season that would build momentum rather than the 'it only starts in August' talk.

Appeal to sponsors much more as we have way more TV exposure.

Bring far more football and hurling to provincial towns and the local community. The Dubs in Killarney or Castlebar on a Saturday night in a big game would be huge. Or what about Tyrone in Thurles in a similar game, would that help you promote the game in Tipp?

With respect AZ, you have said with a bit of imagination we can keep the provincials but I think you are completely wrong. They are four uneven groups and half the teams in them have no chance of ever winning them while increasingly the top teams aren't too bothered. AS J70 said, why not give something like I've proposed a 3 year trial and see how it goes? Bottom line for me is that the current system is hindering clubs massively but not doing much for the IC game either. Why we are so attached to that system is a mystery to me.

J70

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Re: Intercounty apathy a worrying trend
« Reply #153 on: January 11, 2017, 06:13:22 PM »
The conflict between club and county and the resulting effect on the GAA timetable is the key issue/problem for me. Players being caught between both, with the club scene the inevitable losers.

Run the county scene from March/April until the August bank holiday as someone suggested. Fit whatever format you want into that. If you want to preserve the provincial series, fine, but it should not take nine weeks to play out the Ulster championship, usually a mere eight games.

Run the club leagues without the county players until then also, then run the championships once the county scene is over. Finish the AI club series in November.

A lot of it pretty much happens already, but at least the months of August and September and a bit of certainty and regularity could be introduced to the life of club personnel.

On the issue of players opting not to play county, any solution has to come down from above. Right now we're in an arms race with players having to ascend to near-professional standards for too little return. Either impose restrictions on the demands made on them in terms of training and dedication, or make either the schedule worth their while or have tiered competitions where they have a realistic chance. We can't have it every way.

Rossfan

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Re: Intercounty apathy a worrying trend
« Reply #154 on: January 11, 2017, 06:44:23 PM »
In 2017 for example there are 27 weekends from 1/2 April to 30 Sep/1 Oct.
Most years would have a similar situation.
Surely it's possible to designate say 8 weekends as IC football only, 8 as exclusivelying club only and 7 as IC hurling only. Still leaves 4 for a mix of all or any of the 3.
No matter what Championship structures in any  of the 3 categories they can surely be accommodated in that timetable. And club/ county Championships can go in tandem during the best months of the year.
2016 - Hurling League Champions, Football League Semi finalists