Tom Cunniffe speaks...

[shark]

Turbo Tom is the only one of the panel to have the balls to break the omertà. The mangers last year did less wrong than Rochford did this year. The Mayo panel got what they deserved this season.

He's not part of the panel though. So pretty easy to speak up.

[magpie seanie]

2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland  donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C  were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.

That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....

[thewobbler]

I said it last year when Mayo players threatened a strike that it wasn't their management who kept aimlessly pumping balls up to a double-marked AOS when there was options running off the ball, and that if a few more of them had leadership qualities they wouldn't need a manager at all.

But the reality is that if a team isn't behind their manager then it's going nowhere - so moving the management along one way or another simply had to happen. As Cunniffe says it wasn't fair and it could have been handled better. But it had to happen.

[Croí na hÉireann]

It mightn't be an exact science but it's still a science. Look at the positions Dublin took their shots from in that match, they were in the main from long range and they were never going to be able to continue with that conversation rate. In fact, they spurned much easier chances in the second half closer to goal. Connolly's missed goal attempt was a moment alright, a bigger one though was the goal they got off a breaking ball in the first half that brought them right back into the match.

Disagree that Keegan's miss was a pivotal moment, it was a moment no doubt but they still had the same commanding lead over 10 minutes later. The final 15 minutes is where the focus should be on.

Dublin scored 17 points in that game.
The goal would have given them extra breathing space.
It's a lot easier to keep pinging a ball over from 40m when you're 6-8 points up.

There's nothing easy about pinging a ball over from 40m. Check out the stats from the game below, they were at 55% conversation rate in the first half. To reach 44% overall their conversation rate plummeted to 33% in the second half. Now that's further than they should have fallen but it shows that there is science to the numbers as they returned to the mean.

     

[Owenmoresider]

2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland  donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C  were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.

That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....

I'd regard 2014 as the best one. Always had high regard for Cormac Reilly as a referee, and having passed by or been in the Gaelic Grounds a few times in recent years I can only appreciate how worthy a venue it is for the big occasions.

[Captain Obvious]

2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland  donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C  were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.

That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....

I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.

[Lar Naparka]

Turbo Tom is the only one of the panel to have the balls to break the omertà. The mangers last year did less wrong than Rochford did this year. The Mayo panel got what they deserved this season.

Ah, Jaysus, Syf, you're in flying form today!
Not bad coming from a county that's in the Guinness Book of Records when it comes to shafting managers! In no particular order;
Tommy Carr, John Evans, John Maughan. Fergie x2 and right now Kevin McStay is a dead man walking. 
Not bad, not bad at all. 

[Syferus]

Turbo Tom is the only one of the panel to have the balls to break the omertà. The mangers last year did less wrong than Rochford did this year. The Mayo panel got what they deserved this season.

Ah, Jaysus, Syf, you're in flying form today!
Not bad coming from a county that's in the Guinness Book of Records when it comes to shafting managers! In no particular order;
Tommy Carr, John Evans, John Maughan. Fergie x2 and right now Kevin McStay is a dead man walking. 
Not bad, not bad at all. 

John Maughan shafted the players, not the players shalfting him.

That after a Rochford basically costing Mayo an AI by deciding to drop his All-Star keeper for the final replay there has been no mumours of disquiet really draws into focus what happened last year. We have to take our medicine when we fûck up - ye should learn to do the same.

[Lar Naparka]

I said it last year when Mayo players threatened a strike that it wasn't their management who kept aimlessly pumping balls up to a double-marked AOS when there was options running off the ball, and that if a few more of them had leadership qualities they wouldn't need a manager at all.

But the reality is that if a team isn't behind their manager then it's going nowhere - so moving the management along one way or another simply had to happen. As Cunniffe says it wasn't fair and it could have been handled better. But it had to happen.

Sure enough, Cunniffe is right; things should have been handled better, a lot better. The problem is that most commentators and bar stool Brollys seem to forget that it wasn't the players who made H&C's position untenable.
Following a panel meeting, a letter was drafted for presentation to the County Board and IIRC, Higgins and O'Connor were to be the spokesmen at that meeting. From what we've been told, the majority wanted the pair to step down but to do so quietly and without loss of face. However, some b**tard, close to the County Board apparently, chose to leak the contents of the letter and the rest I'm afraid is history.
We'll never know what the outcome of the meeting proposed by the players would have been but the only option open to Pat and Noel was to step down.
All the critics of the Mayo panel chose to forget that H&C took on the gig under the most unusual circumstances. Both were approached and offered the position but both turned it down.
It seems the County Board were determined to block Kevin McStay at all costs and turned to Pat and Noel and asked them to take on joint managership of the team. Whatever happened behind close doors is unknown but the chairman was obliged to step down and another board delegate resigned on principle.
It certainly the most auspicious start to a campaign that anyone would wish for.
The two men were under pressure from the start as they took on the job and the CB took the opportunity to slash costs by cutting back on the background staff and paring back on expenses on petty things like the provision of food after training sessions.
No fault of Pateen or Noel but it added to players' unease.
It seems the shit really hit the fan when it turned out that the pair had left their game plans behind in their hotel for the first semi.
(Dunno why anyone would need a written plan of campaign to suss what was going wrong in that game but it seems the players felt they could/should have won if tactics on the sideline had been handled better.)
There's no point really in digging up the controversy again; a lot of good people got drawn inadvertently into a mediafest of pure speculation and hearsay.
A lot of people wouldn't have been hurt if that bollix who leaked the letter got run over by a horse cart or the likes before opening his (her?) big, fat gob. 

[Cunny Funt]

I said it last year when Mayo players threatened a strike that it wasn't their management who kept aimlessly pumping balls up to a double-marked AOS when there was options running off the ball, and that if a few more of them had leadership qualities they wouldn't need a manager at all.

But the reality is that if a team isn't behind their manager then it's going nowhere - so moving the management along one way or another simply had to happen. As Cunniffe says it wasn't fair and it could have been handled better. But it had to happen.

Sure enough, Cunniffe is right; things should have been handled better, a lot better. The problem is that most commentators and bar stool Brollys seem to forget that it wasn’t the players who made H&C’s position untenable.
Following a panel meeting, a letter was drafted for presentation to the County Board and IIRC, Higgins and O’Connor were to be the spokesmen at that meeting. From what we’ve been told, the majority wanted the pair to step down but to do so quietly and without loss of face. However, some b**tard, close to the County Board apparently, chose to leak the contents of the letter and the rest I’m afraid is history.
We’ll never know what the outcome of the meeting proposed by the players would have been but the only option open to Pat and Noel was to step down.
All the critics of the Mayo panel chose to forget that H&C took on the gig under the most unusual circumstances. Both were approached and offered the position but both turned it down.
It seems the County Board were determined to block Kevin McStay at all costs and turned to Pat and Noel and asked them to take on joint managership of the team. Whatever happened behind close doors is unknown but the chairman was obliged to step down and another board delegate resigned on principle.
It certainly the most auspicious start to a campaign that anyone would wish for.
The two men were under pressure from the start as they took on the job and the CB took the opportunity to slash costs by cutting back on the background staff and paring back on expenses on petty things like the provision of food after training sessions.
No fault of Pateen or Noel but it added to players’ unease.
It seems the shit really hit the fan when it turned out that the pair had left their game plans behind in their hotel for the first semi.
(Dunno why anyone would need a written plan of campaign to suss what was going wrong in that game but it seems the players felt they could/should have won if tactics on the sideline had been handled better.)
There’s no point really in digging up the controversy again; a lot of good people got drawn inadvertently into a mediafest of pure speculation and hearsay.
A lot of people wouldn’t have been hurt if that bollix who leaked the letter got run over by a horse cart or the likes before opening his (her?) big, fat gob.

The majority of the Mayo panel let it be known that they didn't want a management team that included Liam McHale and McStay refused to do the job without McHale, the county board then had to go with option B of Pat and Noel.

[INDIANA]

2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland  donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C  were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.

That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....

I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.

That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade

[From the Bunker]

2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland  donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C  were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.

That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....

I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.

That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade

Weaker than Kerry version 2014?

[Captain Obvious]

2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland  donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C  were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.

That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....

I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.

That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade

Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.

[Syferus]

2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland  donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C  were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.

That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....

I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.

That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade

Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.

Committment is easy when you're winning. Blaming yourself rather than others when it goes wrong takes more character.

[Jinxy]

I said it last year when Mayo players threatened a strike that it wasn't their management who kept aimlessly pumping balls up to a double-marked AOS when there was options running off the ball, and that if a few more of them had leadership qualities they wouldn't need a manager at all.

But the reality is that if a team isn't behind their manager then it's going nowhere - so moving the management along one way or another simply had to happen. As Cunniffe says it wasn't fair and it could have been handled better. But it had to happen.

Sure enough, Cunniffe is right; things should have been handled better, a lot better. The problem is that most commentators and bar stool Brollys seem to forget that it wasn't the players who made H&C's position untenable.
Following a panel meeting, a letter was drafted for presentation to the County Board and IIRC, Higgins and O'Connor were to be the spokesmen at that meeting. From what we've been told, the majority wanted the pair to step down but to do so quietly and without loss of face. However, some b**tard, close to the County Board apparently, chose to leak the contents of the letter and the rest I'm afraid is history.
We'll never know what the outcome of the meeting proposed by the players would have been but the only option open to Pat and Noel was to step down.
All the critics of the Mayo panel chose to forget that H&C took on the gig under the most unusual circumstances. Both were approached and offered the position but both turned it down.
It seems the County Board were determined to block Kevin McStay at all costs and turned to Pat and Noel and asked them to take on joint managership of the team. Whatever happened behind close doors is unknown but the chairman was obliged to step down and another board delegate resigned on principle.
It certainly the most auspicious start to a campaign that anyone would wish for.
The two men were under pressure from the start as they took on the job and the CB took the opportunity to slash costs by cutting back on the background staff and paring back on expenses on petty things like the provision of food after training sessions.
No fault of Pateen or Noel but it added to players' unease.
It seems the shit really hit the fan when it turned out that the pair had left their game plans behind in their hotel for the first semi.
(Dunno why anyone would need a written plan of campaign to suss what was going wrong in that game but it seems the players felt they could/should have won if tactics on the sideline had been handled better.)
There's no point really in digging up the controversy again; a lot of good people got drawn inadvertently into a mediafest of pure speculation and hearsay.
A lot of people wouldn't have been hurt if that bollix who leaked the letter got run over by a horse cart or the likes before opening his (her?) big, fat gob.

That sounds like classic pub-talk.