Author Topic: Gaels amalgamations  (Read 13333 times)

Pablo Escobar

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #210 on: January 07, 2017, 01:04:30 PM »
The Kileen gaels is almost agreed although it may cause one or two defections from B/House.

Is there really any need for Barrowhouse to exist on their own anyway.

Heshs Umpire

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #211 on: January 07, 2017, 01:40:28 PM »
The Kileen gaels is almost agreed although it may cause one or two defections from B/House.

Is there really any need for Barrowhouse to exist on their own anyway.

Barrowhouse were in existence long before Killeen.
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Keyser Söze

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #212 on: January 07, 2017, 03:05:46 PM »
The Kileen gaels is almost agreed although it may cause one or two defections from B/House.

Is there really any need for Barrowhouse to exist on their own anyway.

Is there really any need for anyone or any one club to exist?
A club exists while it has a committee of people to run it, a community to sustain it, and players to field a team (irregardless of the level).
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haze

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #213 on: January 07, 2017, 07:46:27 PM »
The Kileen gaels is almost agreed although it may cause one or two defections from B/House.

Is there really any need for Barrowhouse to exist on their own anyway.

I'm not from Barrowhouse but I'm offended for them despite no offence I assume meant. Rural clubs are the essence of the GAA and where at all possible these clubs should be encouraged to continue to plough their lone proud furrow. Sure why should Leitrim, Louth or Laois exist on the intercounty scene.

In my view amalgamtions should be last resort only. We should look to maximise the numbers of young people playing GAA, not taking away avenues for them to play in the local community regardless of what that level may be. Of course ideally structures are in place to ensure ambitious and talented players have as some outlet to pit themselves against their peers but in any case the vibrancy of many rural communities throughout Ireland is underpinned by GAA activity and once sight is lost of that I think the GAA becomes a much different organisation.

hurlingmad

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #214 on: January 07, 2017, 09:18:23 PM »
The Kileen gaels is almost agreed although it may cause one or two defections from B/House.

Is there really any need for Barrowhouse to exist on their own anyway.

I'm not from Barrowhouse but I'm offended for them despite no offence I assume meant. Rural clubs are the essence of the GAA and where at all possible these clubs should be encouraged to continue to plough their lone proud furrow. Sure why should Leitrim, Louth or Laois exist on the intercounty scene.

In my view amalgamtions should be last resort only. We should look to maximise the numbers of young people playing GAA, not taking away avenues for them to play in the local community regardless of what that level may be. Of course ideally structures are in place to ensure ambitious and talented players have as some outlet to pit themselves against their peers but in any case the vibrancy of many rural communities throughout Ireland is underpinned by GAA activity and once sight is lost of that I think the GAA becomes a much different organisation.

Interesting post Haze
Its a tough one really, the talk over the years of Rathdowney and Errill and Borris and Kilcotton joining was shot down many times over the years and it has brought unity in the community instead of a firm "us vs them" mentality, when Errill reached the county final in 86 i think it was Sheamus Bracken was training them and wanted to use the rathdownry foeld to train one evening for whatever reason and Rathdowney refused, so to say we have come a long way is an understatement but I think underage amalgamations are vital to compete in A championships and develop young players but then there is the arguement that clubs that can put out 2 teams at junior and senior they have sufficent numbers to stay on their own

High Fielder

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #215 on: January 08, 2017, 12:08:23 PM »
The Kileen gaels is almost agreed although it may cause one or two defections from B/House.

Is there really any need for Barrowhouse to exist on their own anyway.

Even though you're clearly on a wind up, you make a valid point. There's a case for saying that clubs like Barrowhouse, Killeen and Kilcruise are fighting a losing battle. It will only ever be hard graft for small clubs to keep their ship afloat. The enjoyment that is gleaned from being part of a bigger set up is all but taken away when a small group of people are having to fund raise, train, organise , administrate and do the countless other tasks. I'm all for pooling resources when it has become so obvious that everything is a struggle. The GAA love this idea of volunteers giving up their time, but I don't think they have the first notion what that actually means

haze

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #216 on: January 08, 2017, 06:08:37 PM »
The Kileen gaels is almost agreed although it may cause one or two defections from B/House.

Is there really any need for Barrowhouse to exist on their own anyway.

Even though you're clearly on a wind up, you make a valid point. There's a case for saying that clubs like Barrowhouse, Killeen and Kilcruise are fighting a losing battle. It will only ever be hard graft for small clubs to keep their ship afloat. The enjoyment that is gleaned from being part of a bigger set up is all but taken away when a small group of people are having to fund raise, train, organise , administrate and do the countless other tasks. I'm all for pooling resources when it has become so obvious that everything is a struggle. The GAA love this idea of volunteers giving up their time, but I don't think they have the first notion what that actually means

Anything that is worth anything is hard graft. I think if the basis for amalgamtions is that it's too hard to sustain a rural club because volunteers are no longer willing to give up and be generous with their very precious spare time then the backbone of the GAA is under threat. I think the frustration for me is when outsiders make judgements about certain clubs (more often than not rural ones) and wonder what is their point because they perceive it to be struggle. But sure it is a struggle but success sustains and success for rural clubs is much wider concept  for me than simply counting senior or even intermediate titles

High Fielder

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #217 on: January 08, 2017, 06:55:21 PM »
I agree. It goes deeper than how many medals or trophies there are in pockets and cabinets. Sometimes, standing still and being able to fly the flag is success in some small clubs.

But let's not duck the issue here. The GAA is a very imbalanced and sometimes unreasonable organization that condones unequal opportunity. There is no way that some small clubs can ever compete with the bigger ones, and the same applies at county level too. The GAA has no remedy for this. Simply redoubling your efforts and/or getting more out of people will never be enough when resources and numbers are not on your side. In those situations, it is not fair to expect those not as well off to keep doing the same things over and over without reward. At the very least, every player who plays the sport should have access to the highest level. It's not a hard thing to ensure at local level, particularly with parish boundaries and borders being what they are. If something is not done soon, small clubs (intermediate and junior clubs in particular) will just become poaching grounds for Senior clubs. We're seeing far too much of that already in Laois and not a thing being done to stop it. An absolute scandal

Downtheroad

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #218 on: January 09, 2017, 12:07:51 AM »
I agree. It goes deeper than how many medals or trophies there are in pockets and cabinets. Sometimes, standing still and being able to fly the flag is success in some small clubs.

But let's not duck the issue here. The GAA is a very imbalanced and sometimes unreasonable organization that condones unequal opportunity. There is no way that some small clubs can ever compete with the bigger ones, and the same applies at county level too. The GAA has no remedy for this. Simply redoubling your efforts and/or getting more out of people will never be enough when resources and numbers are not on your side. In those situations, it is not fair to expect those not as well off to keep doing the same things over and over without reward. At the very least, every player who plays the sport should have access to the highest level. It's not a hard thing to ensure at local level, particularly with parish boundaries and borders being what they are. If something is not done soon, small clubs (intermediate and junior clubs in particular) will just become poaching grounds for Senior clubs. We're seeing far too much of that already in Laois and not a thing being done to stop it. An absolute scandal
The size of a club is often not the issue. Many small clubs are well run and know what they are about. From my own experience very few clubs here in Laois have plenty of "workers" with Rosenallis been one of the exceptions. For most clubs in the county, it's the same few faces that you associate with doing everything whether it's under 12 or adult. The model of the volunteer led community organisation will be severely tested in the coming years particularly in towns.  This is why clubs such as Mountrath, Mountmellick, Portarlington and Graigcullen will be under pressure as there is very little loyalty to GAA in urban areas. Kids will play the sport that is in fashion or often play nothing at all.  What I'm trying to say in a roundabout way is that it may be necessary for the so called bigger urban clubs to need to amalgamate in order to survive as much as it may be necessary for the so called minnows.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 12:10:45 AM by Downtheroad »

beano

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #219 on: January 09, 2017, 03:47:48 PM »
I disagree with u down the road, they're many examples of urban clubs doing very well without the need to almagamate.  The two newbridge clubs in Kildare, any dublin club. IF the club is well run and it has a good set up, the kids will always be attracted to it. That goes in any code.

Downtheroad

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #220 on: January 09, 2017, 07:38:24 PM »
I disagree with u down the road, they're many examples of urban clubs doing very well without the need to almagamate.  The two newbridge clubs in Kildare, any dublin club. IF the club is well run and it has a good set up, the kids will always be attracted to it. That goes in any code.
The clubs you reference are "super" clubs with a significant middle class base.   In fact, the type of officer who runs these clubs are in nature almost undistinguishable from the chaps down in the local rugby club.  Naas is another classic example of the well run GAA club.  The urban clubs, I have in mind are much poorer and poverty is not just money but in ideas and ambition. The reality is that GAA is in trouble in working class areas as can be seen most clearly in Cork city.  Years ago, the local garda, teacher, banker moved to the small  town they got work in but nowadays, they head for the county town as in the case of Portlaoise.  If they decide to settle down, they either live in an upmarket part of Portlaoise or move out the country. This is why rural clubs wind up with a better class of punter running their clubs. This is exasperated even further with town folk with notions bringing the kids out to rural schools which denudes the talent and the ambition within the urban community even further. Most small town based clubs which are successful tend to have a rural hinterland. Even in Kilkenny City . the 3  principal city clubs have a rural base eg O'Loughlin Gaels the catchment area of which comes out to the Dunmore caves.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 07:41:23 PM by Downtheroad »

Dave like the tv channel

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #221 on: January 10, 2017, 11:08:24 AM »
I disagree with u down the road, they're many examples of urban clubs doing very well without the need to almagamate.  The two newbridge clubs in Kildare, any dublin club. IF the club is well run and it has a good set up, the kids will always be attracted to it. That goes in any code.

Dublin clubs with a catchment area of c.60,000 hardly compare to Mountmellick or Portarlington, pop c.5,000, both of whom are split three ways. Laois only has a population of about 85,000.

St Vincents has a membership totalling 25,000. BBSE is the largest sports club in Europe.

High Fielder

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #222 on: January 11, 2017, 08:49:33 AM »
I've been thinking it for a long time now. The GAA is fundamentally flawed, and badly needs redesigning. There is nothing fair about the All Ireland series, and if I'm being honest, save for a few games here and there, it isn't even entertaining anymore. Right now, and maybe for the rest of time, there will be nothing Carlow or maybe even ourselves can do to win an All Ireland. It would take a freakish set of players to luckily appear at the one time. The chances are almost nil.

At a local level, the GAA is a hard sell. For some clubs, there's a sense of duty attached to it and not much enjoyment. Young lads time would be better spent living a life instead of being fed charters and getting texts from an over enthusiastic coach. Look, it has its place, and it's ok if you're potentially going to win something. But it's tedious and time consuming when you're ploughing the same furrow year after year without success. This do it for the love of your community bullshit has no place in a world where mortgages and debts are king. There is an ocean of work out there for the GAA to do, but they largely don't give a f**k. They think everything in the garden is rosy, but I believe there is a lot of unrest in smaller clubs who are getting fed up. There has to be a carrot on the end of the stick for every player who plays the game, and if that continues to be ignored, the game will die out. Has that process already begun?

Downtheroad

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #223 on: January 11, 2017, 12:53:26 PM »
I've been thinking it for a long time now. The GAA is fundamentally flawed, and badly needs redesigning. There is nothing fair about the All Ireland series, and if I'm being honest, save for a few games here and there, it isn't even entertaining anymore. Right now, and maybe for the rest of time, there will be nothing Carlow or maybe even ourselves can do to win an All Ireland. It would take a freakish set of players to luckily appear at the one time. The chances are almost nil.

At a local level, the GAA is a hard sell. For some clubs, there's a sense of duty attached to it and not much enjoyment. Young lads time would be better spent living a life instead of being fed charters and getting texts from an over enthusiastic coach. Look, it has its place, and it's ok if you're potentially going to win something. But it's tedious and time consuming when you're ploughing the same furrow year after year without success. This do it for the love of your community bullshit has no place in a world where mortgages and debts are king. There is an ocean of work out there for the GAA to do, but they largely don't give a f**k. They think everything in the garden is rosy, but I believe there is a lot of unrest in smaller clubs who are getting fed up. There has to be a carrot on the end of the stick for every player who plays the game, and if that continues to be ignored, the game will die out. Has that process already begun?
The irony is that Laois got a freakish  set of players and we just didn't get enough out of them. On the more general point, there is nothing more debilitating than been from an unsuccessful club from an unsuccessful county. Over the past decade, there has been a major transformation in the support base of rugby in counties where there was no previous tradition apart from the local doctor/Solicitor who probably boarded at some rugby establishment. As far as I can see the GAA is going like the church and the traditional political parties in that the support base is both shrinking and aging particularly outside Dublin. Years ago, clubs organised social trips around National league games. You don't see it that much anymore which is an indication of a changing society.


High Fielder

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Re: Gaels amalgamations
« Reply #224 on: January 11, 2017, 02:02:26 PM »
I believe that a lot of clubs are straddling the line at the moment, and that is why we're seeing all this talk about amalgamations. Amalgamations only mask the obvious reality. A lot of these clubs can't motivate players to train and are wholesale reliant on them to commit. There are no other options. Truth be told, it's a dead horse that is gone way past the point of being flogged. For comfort's sake, some clubs would be better served taking a walk down the road and joining up with the neighbour. You have some sort of chance when you have numbers. At the moment, a lot of clubs seem happy to look at the neighbour and say did you know I'm dying; well at least you'll be dead before me. The race to the bottom is well underway for some Laois clubs.