Brazilian football team plane crash

[seafoid]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/chapecoense-air-crash-fans-plane-fuel-colombia

[armaghniac]

from BBC. Tragic that he didn't go to Bogota if things were tight.

Brazil's O Globo reported that because of a delayed departure, a refuelling stop in Cobija, on the border between Brazil and Bolivia, was abandoned because the airport did not operate at night.

The pilot had the option to refuel in Bogota, but headed straight to Medellin.

"The pilot was the one who took the decision," Gustavo Vargas, a representative of Lamia, which operated the plane, was quoted as saying in Bolivian newspaper Pagina Siete. "He thought the fuel would last."

[seafoid]

from BBC. Tragic that he didn't go to Bogota if things were tight.

Brazil's O Globo reported that because of a delayed departure, a refuelling stop in Cobija, on the border between Brazil and Bolivia, was abandoned because the airport did not operate at night.

The pilot had the option to refuel in Bogota, but headed straight to Medellin.

"The pilot was the one who took the decision," Gustavo Vargas, a representative of Lamia, which operated the plane, was quoted as saying in Bolivian newspaper Pagina Siete. "He thought the fuel would last."

So a delayed departure
A refueling stop that was closed
A misjudgement on fuel
No communication ahead ?
An obnoxious Air Traffic Controller

[Minder]

How would they not know the refuelling airport didn't operate at night ??

[Tony Baloney]

from BBC. Tragic that he didn't go to Bogota if things were tight.

Brazil's O Globo reported that because of a delayed departure, a refuelling stop in Cobija, on the border between Brazil and Bolivia, was abandoned because the airport did not operate at night.

The pilot had the option to refuel in Bogota, but headed straight to Medellin.

"The pilot was the one who took the decision," Gustavo Vargas, a representative of Lamia, which operated the plane, was quoted as saying in Bolivian newspaper Pagina Siete. "He thought the fuel would last."

So a delayed departure
A refueling stop that was closed
A misjudgement on fuel
No communication ahead ?
An obnoxious Air Traffic Controller

That is called a catalogue of errors.

[seafoid]

from BBC. Tragic that he didn't go to Bogota if things were tight.

Brazil's O Globo reported that because of a delayed departure, a refuelling stop in Cobija, on the border between Brazil and Bolivia, was abandoned because the airport did not operate at night.

The pilot had the option to refuel in Bogota, but headed straight to Medellin.

"The pilot was the one who took the decision," Gustavo Vargas, a representative of Lamia, which operated the plane, was quoted as saying in Bolivian newspaper Pagina Siete. "He thought the fuel would last."

So a delayed departure
A refueling stop that was closed
A misjudgement on fuel
No communication ahead ?
An obnoxious Air Traffic Controller

That is called a catalogue of errors.

That is how tragedies happen.

Some of the mistakes were very Brazilian.
And the saddest thing is that the team was a high performance unit that was not "typically Brazilian" in terms of attention to detail.

[armaghniac]

An obnoxious Air Traffic Controller

The air controller at Medellin wasn't at fault, the pilot never formally signalled a  Fuel Emergency Mayday.

In this digital day and age, there should be more telemetry from aircraft, with data like fuel sent to the controllers who could then more easily sort out priority and airlines could be fined if their fuel ever fell below safety buffer.

[muppet]

They had to go via Bolivia cos as the crow flies would mean hours flying over the Amazon .
Why not have 2 pit stops? Arriving late is better than not arriving.

It appears they were already delayed (by a previous flight and the team needed to train apparently) and that the planned fuel-stop had no runway lights. Thus it was unavailable at night.

I still don't know why they flew past Bogotá, which as the capital presumably had good facilities.

Most tragedies of this nature involve human error at several different stages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJhSQxvkd0k

Agreed.

Occasionally an event occurs that might be unforeseeable and unpreventable. But most of the time it is a series of errors or poor decisions. Often these decisions are accepted as 'normal' in organisations with weaker safety cultures than others.

Full costs money to carry, so extra fuel costs extra money.

In this case though it appears that a decision was made to fly past Bogotá. We don't know why they did that yet.

[muppet]

An obnoxious Air Traffic Controller

The air controller at Medellin wasn't at fault, the pilot never formally signalled a  Fuel Emergency Mayday.

In this digital day and age, there should be more telemetry from aircraft, with data like fuel sent to the controllers who could then more easily sort out priority and airlines could be fined if their fuel ever fell below safety buffer.

She did very little wrong. She gave a heading at the end of 010 degrees, when she meant 350, which she corrected quickly, but I think her stress levels were very high and that wasn't the problem that caused the crash.

[muppet]

How would they not know the refuelling airport didn't operate at night ??

I think they did know. The original plan was to refuel there, but the delay meant is was dark and the plan changed to re-fueling at Bogotá. We still don't know why he flew past Bogotá. The voice recorder might shed some light on that.

[muppet]

from BBC. Tragic that he didn't go to Bogota if things were tight.

Brazil's O Globo reported that because of a delayed departure, a refuelling stop in Cobija, on the border between Brazil and Bolivia, was abandoned because the airport did not operate at night.

The pilot had the option to refuel in Bogota, but headed straight to Medellin.

"The pilot was the one who took the decision," Gustavo Vargas, a representative of Lamia, which operated the plane, was quoted as saying in Bolivian newspaper Pagina Siete. "He thought the fuel would last."

The airline has already decided who is at fault.

[Declan]

See Ronaldinho and Riquelme have offered to play for them for the year for free

[seafoid]

How would they not know the refuelling airport didn't operate at night ??

I think they did know. The original plan was to refuel there, but the delay meant is was dark and the plan changed to re-fueling at Bogotá. We still don't know why he flew past Bogotá. The voice recorder might shed some light on that.

Why couldn't they refuel at La Paz which is also in Bolivia ? La Paz is the capital.
It's quite a long way from the original refuel destination to Medellin.

[armaghniac]

Why couldn't they refuel at La Paz which is also in Bolivia ? La Paz is the capital.
It's quite a long way from the original refuel destination to Medellin.

Both the original refuel destination and Bogota are pretty much on the flight path anyway.

[armaghniac]

Co-pilot on her first flight.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2306176/colombia-plane-crash-victim-sisy-arias-was-co-piloting-for-the-first-time-when-doomed-jet-crashed/

Given that the Captain is supposed to have part owned the airline, it isn't hard to see how he could brow beat the co-pilot, even though they were breaking every rule in the book.
Very sad and totally unnecessary.