Author Topic: Money, Dublin and the GAA  (Read 101959 times)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1650 on: February 21, 2019, 09:39:06 PM »
And very little support to the small junior football and hurling clubs who only field adult teams.
Good few of them have folded in recent years

Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1651 on: February 22, 2019, 12:39:14 AM »
My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

You see this is what it leads to. I've been saying it for years. What do you think other counties are going to do to try to keep up? Invest huge money themselves! Some have done it at senior level with varying degrees of success. Others, like Kerry have tried to emulate Dublin's method, player creation is the key. Where does that leave us? Only counties with money can compete! That's the road we're going down. That's why this is such an important issue and one we have to tackle now. Look already at the calls for the b championship. That's the beginning of the end for Gaelic football in many counties. It'll be like hurling!

25 of those counties never kept up...
That's fair enough. I remember Jimmy Grey, the club chairman,  saying when the controversy over the proposed Dublin Metro erupted, that upwards of 2,000 youngsters used the club's facilities. That's an unbelievable number but Jimmy is a gentleman and I wouldn't doubt his word.
I have also heard of a junior club (Rathmines Gaels?) that was protesting at City Council plans to take away their only pitch, which is out somewhere in Inchicore. According to their spokesman, they had 400 kids involved. Again, the number is amazing. I can also see why the junor club needs extra help but Na Finna is not in the same category, IMO.
They already have the pitches and changing rooms and most of their activities are internal games. They also depend on selfless volunteers to organise and coach the underage players. Do they need the same per capita grant aid as does the junior club? I often think that Dublin's volunteer coaches perform a massive baby sitting service for busy mums and disinterested dads all over Dublin.
To see what I mean, take a good look at the hordes of kiddies, running about an generally having a thoroughly enjoyable experience.
Then try to viualise the number that will still be around at senior level. Better still, how many would you expect to be still active club members at minor level or , say, u15  and other age levels you care to think of? There is a frightening haemorrhage of members as the age levels increase.
Why is this?
If you were looking at the number of children involved in most rural clubs at  weekends, you'd be lucky to count thirty or thereabouts. Yet the percentage of those who will stay with their clubs and become active members of their community will be far higher. Again, the reason for this should be fairly obvious to all.

They are a hurling renting off a football club. Football club is selling land and telling them to do one. Nothing to do with the council.

But you have hit the nail on the head. The money is going to middle class superclubs who currently provide a better babysitting service than soccer or rugby. But retention is poor, at 15 they are playing different sports. But look at the Dublin teams, mostly from.affluent areas. So its partially working, but risky.
I read about this club in one of the tabloids so I’m not surprised that the article had a gaffe or two.
Yah, there is a big drop out around 15 when young bucks tend to start losing the run of themselves whenever they see young wans knocking about. That’s common in all sports but the problem is worse with the Gah because of the lack of opportunity to play at a higher level in many cases.
Take my nephew and his mates for instance. A gang of  then played with Ballyboden quite happily from about 8 or 9 up to the end their u14th. year.
Then, at least one of them didn’t get notified when training for the u15s commenced. Nothing..zilch..sweet FA.
When they found out the reason why, and they had to ask before they were told, all of them decided to pack it in. The neff took it badly and ever since, at least 10 years later, he’s prefer to go to Hell than Ballyboden in any shape or form.
That is not an isolated instance, btw. I have heard of far too many kids where the same thing has happened and will continue to happen. It’s all very well to talk about quality above quantity but this can cause a lot of heartbreak and besides, runs counter to the ethos of the GAA.
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manfromdelmonte

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1652 on: February 22, 2019, 08:12:44 AM »
Millions being spent in Dublin and yet small rural clubs barely able to field due to government and GAA policy
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/times-up-famous-gaa-club-calls-for-rule-change-amid-struggle-to-field-senior-team-37841559.html
and before you ask why is it he GAA's fault?
because they haven't bothered to put in place rural development plans which would ensure small rural clubs remain viable.

Valencia island might seem like a far flung place from Dublin but this issue is happening in clubs in the midlands and in the west
club players are walking away from the game at 18/19

mup

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1653 on: February 24, 2019, 08:15:46 AM »
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

Why not start a thread about it so? People are rightly up in arms over this. It is clearly favouring one particular. Speaking of boggling minds, I am perplexed how all you Dubs cannot see anything wrong with this. That in itself tells the real truth.

Genuinely can't understand why people spend their hard earned money on this farce anymore. I stopped going years ago and its the best thing I ever did.

The Hill is Blue

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1654 on: February 24, 2019, 08:34:31 PM »
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

Why not start a thread about it so? People are rightly up in arms over this. It is clearly favouring one particular. Speaking of boggling minds, I am perplexed how all you Dubs cannot see anything wrong with this. That in itself tells the real truth.

Genuinely can't understand why people spend their hard earned money on this farce anymore. I stopped going years ago and its the best thing I ever did.

Over 60% of Congress delegates weren’t “up in arms” when it came to Donegal’s proposal last Saturday.
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

Hound

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1655 on: February 24, 2019, 08:57:38 PM »
Again, you’re just not listening because you’ve no interest in listening.

Did Cluxton go from talented hot head to the best keeper of all time because of money?
It’s moronic nonsense to even suggest it. First, he copped himself on. Second, he worked his arse off so his god given talent could give the results that came. He’s an absolute freak of a man. A genius. A nutter. A hero. Money was and is completely and utterly irrelevant.

We’d no reliable freetaker in the pre Gilroy years. Mossy Quinn, Wayne McCarthy, Johnny McNally, Ray Cosgrove and a few more were all given the job, and were all not quite reliable enough. Almost impossible to win an All Ireland without a good freetaker.
I guarantee that no player in Ireland has put more practice into freetaking that Dean Rock. Living and working in Dublin has helped that considerably. Money has been irrelevant.
We’d no reliable full back for a good few years too. Trying the likes of Barry Cahill and Denis Bastick there!
But then came along Rory O’Carroll to make an enormous difference. Money again irrelevant.

New tactics from Gavin has allowed us to get away with playing 3 corner backs since Rory moved away. I also think opposition managers may have missed a trick in not going after what I think has been Dublin’s biggest weakness these last few years.

The GDOs have had practically zero influence on all Dublin hurlers and footballers. As I’ve said, our lads do get looked after very well, as do Mayo, Kerry, Kilkenny, Limerick and others. And we’ve no travel.

We have an amazing bunch of players and the crop is only growing due to population, not money. But boy, we’re going to miss Clucko when he’s gone, and I doubt the next guy up after Rock will be as prolific.

It's the other way round, you're not listening because you don't want to.

I've heard all these excuses before. The money isn't irrelevant, Cluxton is irrelevant. Was he not a genius prior to 2011? Along came a host of new players from the production line. Look up your defence from that year, that's what won you that All Ireland.

Again, these players you are talking about came through the system! They were created by top class coaching. That includes Rock, O'Carroll and a host of others. You can't have a highly financed elite player pathway put in place on one hand and then denying it had anything to do with creating elite level players on the other!

Apart from actually creating top class talent, having your underage system bankrolled has freed up funds for other areas. Hiring a professional basketball coach is one area that has paid dividends. Having a whole list of other paid coaches and backroom staff also helps.

I have provided tables which show exactly what paid coaches and a highly financed system can bring to a county. I see you've ignored the club one I just posted. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Denying millions upon millions of euro has had a huge effect on Dublin GAA is like claiming black is white.
The elite player pathway has NOTHING to do with the millions in games development funding.
Unpaid ex-player volunteers coach the Dublin development panels. GDOs don’t go next nor near them.
Yes, they are well looked after with meal plans, dieticians, etc but same as many other counties.
And if they get to senior panel, there’s a plethora of coaches, and some of them are getting well paid, but again same as Kerry, Mayo, etc, although i’d say we have more and pay more, but again totally irrelevant to the GDO funds which goes to clubs

If the GDO funding stopped, it wouldn’t impact one iota on the funding for the elite teams. Completely different pots. If the GDO funding stopped, we’d just halve the number of GDOs, clubs would likely band together to have one between two.

Club game is flourishing in Dublin. As I said, it’s a numbers games.  More players, more members, more contributions, so super facilities. Huge numbers of volunteer coaches.  Very good organization of club games in the county (exception being the U21s). We have most of the biggest clubs in the country, clubs with huge picks, will inevitably win many club AllIrelands over the next decade in both codes.
On a very serious note, can you say where the millions spent on games development is actually going?
It certainly isn’t being spent on coaching kids in primary schools.
I am not saying there is a fiddle of any sort here but I can see any obvious signs of large sums of money being spent on anything to do with kids’ coaching/playing.
Games development fund was something like 1.3m to Dublin last year.
About 90 GDOs at 14k comes to close to that.
They spend half their time in schools (funded by games development funds) and half their time with the club (funded by club members) is how I understand it works.

mup

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1656 on: February 24, 2019, 09:28:14 PM »
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

Why not start a thread about it so? People are rightly up in arms over this. It is clearly favouring one particular. Speaking of boggling minds, I am perplexed how all you Dubs cannot see anything wrong with this. That in itself tells the real truth.

Genuinely can't understand why people spend their hard earned money on this farce anymore. I stopped going years ago and its the best thing I ever did.

Over 60% of Congress delegates weren’t “up in arms” when it came to Donegal’s proposal last Saturday.

One wonders why. It doesn't make sense.

From the Bunker

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1657 on: February 24, 2019, 10:09:25 PM »
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

Why not start a thread about it so? People are rightly up in arms over this. It is clearly favouring one particular. Speaking of boggling minds, I am perplexed how all you Dubs cannot see anything wrong with this. That in itself tells the real truth.

Genuinely can't understand why people spend their hard earned money on this farce anymore. I stopped going years ago and its the best thing I ever did.

Over 60% of Congress delegates weren’t “up in arms” when it came to Donegal’s proposal last Saturday.

The 60% that voted have little or no hope of making the Super 8's. So they are happy to just take the money like any whore would. Fair dues to Dublin CEO John Costello who stayed out of the argument and did not try to influence the vote in Dublins favour.

highorlow

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1658 on: February 24, 2019, 10:12:29 PM »
The GAA appear to have mastered the “event”. Dublin games are becoming events now and nights out for gangs. There were even a few stag parties around the place.

The game is becoming a nonsense at this stage.

Anyway fair play to Dublin and congratulations on the 5 in a row.

From the Bunker

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1659 on: February 24, 2019, 10:18:00 PM »
The GAA appear to have mastered the “event”. Dublin games are becoming events now and nights out for gangs. There were even a few stag parties around the place.

The game is becoming a nonsense at this stage.

Anyway fair play to Dublin and congratulations on the 5 in a row.

Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?

Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1660 on: February 24, 2019, 10:23:04 PM »
Again, you’re just not listening because you’ve no interest in listening.

Did Cluxton go from talented hot head to the best keeper of all time because of money?
It’s moronic nonsense to even suggest it. First, he copped himself on. Second, he worked his arse off so his god given talent could give the results that came. He’s an absolute freak of a man. A genius. A nutter. A hero. Money was and is completely and utterly irrelevant.

We’d no reliable freetaker in the pre Gilroy years. Mossy Quinn, Wayne McCarthy, Johnny McNally, Ray Cosgrove and a few more were all given the job, and were all not quite reliable enough. Almost impossible to win an All Ireland without a good freetaker.
I guarantee that no player in Ireland has put more practice into freetaking that Dean Rock. Living and working in Dublin has helped that considerably. Money has been irrelevant.
We’d no reliable full back for a good few years too. Trying the likes of Barry Cahill and Denis Bastick there!
But then came along Rory O’Carroll to make an enormous difference. Money again irrelevant.

New tactics from Gavin has allowed us to get away with playing 3 corner backs since Rory moved away. I also think opposition managers may have missed a trick in not going after what I think has been Dublin’s biggest weakness these last few years.

The GDOs have had practically zero influence on all Dublin hurlers and footballers. As I’ve said, our lads do get looked after very well, as do Mayo, Kerry, Kilkenny, Limerick and others. And we’ve no travel.

We have an amazing bunch of players and the crop is only growing due to population, not money. But boy, we’re going to miss Clucko when he’s gone, and I doubt the next guy up after Rock will be as prolific.

It's the other way round, you're not listening because you don't want to.

I've heard all these excuses before. The money isn't irrelevant, Cluxton is irrelevant. Was he not a genius prior to 2011? Along came a host of new players from the production line. Look up your defence from that year, that's what won you that All Ireland.

Again, these players you are talking about came through the system! They were created by top class coaching. That includes Rock, O'Carroll and a host of others. You can't have a highly financed elite player pathway put in place on one hand and then denying it had anything to do with creating elite level players on the other!

Apart from actually creating top class talent, having your underage system bankrolled has freed up funds for other areas. Hiring a professional basketball coach is one area that has paid dividends. Having a whole list of other paid coaches and backroom staff also helps.

I have provided tables which show exactly what paid coaches and a highly financed system can bring to a county. I see you've ignored the club one I just posted. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Denying millions upon millions of euro has had a huge effect on Dublin GAA is like claiming black is white.
The elite player pathway has NOTHING to do with the millions in games development funding.
Unpaid ex-player volunteers coach the Dublin development panels. GDOs don’t go next nor near them.
Yes, they are well looked after with meal plans, dieticians, etc but same as many other counties.
And if they get to senior panel, there’s a plethora of coaches, and some of them are getting well paid, but again same as Kerry, Mayo, etc, although i’d say we have more and pay more, but again totally irrelevant to the GDO funds which goes to clubs

If the GDO funding stopped, it wouldn’t impact one iota on the funding for the elite teams. Completely different pots. If the GDO funding stopped, we’d just halve the number of GDOs, clubs would likely band together to have one between two.

Club game is flourishing in Dublin. As I said, it’s a numbers games.  More players, more members, more contributions, so super facilities. Huge numbers of volunteer coaches.  Very good organization of club games in the county (exception being the U21s). We have most of the biggest clubs in the country, clubs with huge picks, will inevitably win many club AllIrelands over the next decade in both codes.
On a very serious note, can you say where the millions spent on games development is actually going?
It certainly isn’t being spent on coaching kids in primary schools.
I am not saying there is a fiddle of any sort here but I can see any obvious signs of large sums of money being spent on anything to do with kids’ coaching/playing.
Games development fund was something like 1.3m to Dublin last year.
About 90 GDOs at 14k comes to close to that.
They spend half their time in schools (funded by games development funds) and half their time with the club (funded by club members) is how I understand it works.
Yes, that's what I've been led to believe also.
The trouble is that I see no sign of serious GAA activity in the few schools I stay in touch with. There well may be others that employ coaches but I imagine I would have heard about them by now. In my former school, the local GAA club did provide some coaching okay but that was before the GDO scheme started.
ASAIK, the club paid half the wages of the two lads involved and Fas paid the rest. They also went to matches and looked after the playing side of things while a few ladies were the official supervisors. (Needed for insurance purposes.)
I don't know who lost interest first, kids or teachers, but the scheme wound down after a few years.
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highorlow

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1661 on: February 24, 2019, 10:35:13 PM »
Quote
[Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?/quote]

Yes that’s what I was referring to.

From the Bunker

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1662 on: February 24, 2019, 11:20:52 PM »
Quote
[Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?

Yes that’s what I was referring to.

Gave up going to watch Mayo last year. Just before the Connacht Final. The disgust and conflict were taking away the enjoyment. There were just to many things wrong that it was hard to ignore them anymore.  It hard when you love something but you know in your heart and sole that there is a Financial doped monster like Dublin and you are only contributing to making it bigger. It was not an easy decision, I lived GAA. Anyway I look from a distance anymore. Friends who are still on the (false) bandwagon don't want to hear reality. The silence says it all when you put your views to them. They still live in their romantic view of the GAA. A GAA of the people. Hah!

I don't feel sorry for myself. I've had great days out with Mayo. What worries me is I have 3 kids 11,10 and 7 and I won't be bringing them to games. They are not going to get the bug! Not from me anyway. How could you introduce them to this? They play and love the game for the club and i will encourage that.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 11:22:40 PM by From the Bunker »

highorlow

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1663 on: February 25, 2019, 12:40:39 AM »
As FTB says I felt the same a few years back but chose to ignore it.

What sticks in the memory for me is a few years ago at the back of the hogan stand where we go for pints at half time on peoples eyleline (beside the “crossbar”plastic pint place) is a memorable plaque to the victims of Bloody Sunday of 1920 and looking down upon it was an advert for king crisps “king of the hill” it said with Berno in full pose.

I’m probably getting too old and too cynical but I feel my game our game the games we were reared on are slowly slipping into a corporate rugby type NFL type trap.

The soul I’m afraid is eroding.




« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 12:46:21 AM by highorlow »

TheGreatest

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1664 on: February 26, 2019, 01:37:44 PM »
Quote
[Were you at the Dublin Mayo game on the weekend?

Yes that’s what I was referring to.

Gave up going to watch Mayo last year. Just before the Connacht Final. The disgust and conflict were taking away the enjoyment. There were just to many things wrong that it was hard to ignore them anymore.  It hard when you love something but you know in your heart and sole that there is a Financial doped monster like Dublin and you are only contributing to making it bigger. It was not an easy decision, I lived GAA. Anyway I look from a distance anymore. Friends who are still on the (false) bandwagon don't want to hear reality. The silence says it all when you put your views to them. They still live in their romantic view of the GAA. A GAA of the people. Hah!

I don't feel sorry for myself. I've had great days out with Mayo. What worries me is I have 3 kids 11,10 and 7 and I won't be bringing them to games. They are not going to get the bug! Not from me anyway. How could you introduce them to this? They play and love the game for the club and i will encourage that.

Is that because the players can pick the team and influence managerial selections for finals?

A disgrace they are. Some of those players should be put of the panel.