Author Topic: Money, Dublin and the GAA  (Read 126093 times)

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1620 on: February 21, 2019, 04:02:43 PM »
Dont shoot me down but I have been wondering why Dublin haven't re-developed Parnell park for a bigger capacity or built a new ground?

Does anyone know how many people need to attend croke park in order for it to make a profit. I heard years ago a figure of around 40,000 but not sure if this is true.

I would imagine there is alot of cost involved in opening it up for games where only 30,000 or so attend.

Because the GAA push Dublin to play in Croker to pay it off.

Dublin would have built a medium sized venue years ago otherwise. What do you think the Rathcoole site was for?

J70

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1621 on: February 21, 2019, 04:03:23 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1622 on: February 21, 2019, 04:06:43 PM »
Again, you’re just not listening because you’ve no interest in listening.

Did Cluxton go from talented hot head to the best keeper of all time because of money?
It’s moronic nonsense to even suggest it. First, he copped himself on. Second, he worked his arse off so his god given talent could give the results that came. He’s an absolute freak of a man. A genius. A nutter. A hero. Money was and is completely and utterly irrelevant.

We’d no reliable freetaker in the pre Gilroy years. Mossy Quinn, Wayne McCarthy, Johnny McNally, Ray Cosgrove and a few more were all given the job, and were all not quite reliable enough. Almost impossible to win an All Ireland without a good freetaker.
I guarantee that no player in Ireland has put more practice into freetaking that Dean Rock. Living and working in Dublin has helped that considerably. Money has been irrelevant.
We’d no reliable full back for a good few years too. Trying the likes of Barry Cahill and Denis Bastick there!
But then came along Rory O’Carroll to make an enormous difference. Money again irrelevant.

New tactics from Gavin has allowed us to get away with playing 3 corner backs since Rory moved away. I also think opposition managers may have missed a trick in not going after what I think has been Dublin’s biggest weakness these last few years.

The GDOs have had practically zero influence on all Dublin hurlers and footballers. As I’ve said, our lads do get looked after very well, as do Mayo, Kerry, Kilkenny, Limerick and others. And we’ve no travel.

We have an amazing bunch of players and the crop is only growing due to population, not money. But boy, we’re going to miss Clucko when he’s gone, and I doubt the next guy up after Rock will be as prolific.

It's the other way round, you're not listening because you don't want to.

I've heard all these excuses before. The money isn't irrelevant, Cluxton is irrelevant. Was he not a genius prior to 2011? Along came a host of new players from the production line. Look up your defence from that year, that's what won you that All Ireland.

Again, these players you are talking about came through the system! They were created by top class coaching. That includes Rock, O'Carroll and a host of others. You can't have a highly financed elite player pathway put in place on one hand and then denying it had anything to do with creating elite level players on the other!

Apart from actually creating top class talent, having your underage system bankrolled has freed up funds for other areas. Hiring a professional basketball coach is one area that has paid dividends. Having a whole list of other paid coaches and backroom staff also helps.

I have provided tables which show exactly what paid coaches and a highly financed system can bring to a county. I see you've ignored the club one I just posted. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Denying millions upon millions of euro has had a huge effect on Dublin GAA is like claiming black is white.
The elite player pathway has NOTHING to do with the millions in games development funding.
Unpaid ex-player volunteers coach the Dublin development panels. GDOs don’t go next nor near them.
Yes, they are well looked after with meal plans, dieticians, etc but same as many other counties.
And if they get to senior panel, there’s a plethora of coaches, and some of them are getting well paid, but again same as Kerry, Mayo, etc, although i’d say we have more and pay more, but again totally irrelevant to the GDO funds which goes to clubs

If the GDO funding stopped, it wouldn’t impact one iota on the funding for the elite teams. Completely different pots. If the GDO funding stopped, we’d just halve the number of GDOs, clubs would likely band together to have one between two.

Club game is flourishing in Dublin. As I said, it’s a numbers games.  More players, more members, more contributions, so super facilities. Huge numbers of volunteer coaches.  Very good organization of club games in the county (exception being the U21s). We have most of the biggest clubs in the country, clubs with huge picks, will inevitably win many club AllIrelands over the next decade in both codes.
On a very serious note, can you say where the millions spent on games development is actually going?
It certainly isn’t being spent on coaching kids in primary schools.
I am not saying there is a fiddle of any sort here but I can see any obvious signs of large sums of money being spent on anything to do with kids’ coaching/playing.
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Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1623 on: February 21, 2019, 04:11:11 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Are you taking the piss now?

priceyreilly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1624 on: February 21, 2019, 04:14:20 PM »
My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

You see this is what it leads to. I've been saying it for years. What do you think other counties are going to do to try to keep up? Invest huge money themselves! Some have done it at senior level with varying degrees of success. Others, like Kerry have tried to emulate Dublin's method, player creation is the key. Where does that leave us? Only counties with money can compete! That's the road we're going down. That's why this is such an important issue and one we have to tackle now. Look already at the calls for the b championship. That's the beginning of the end for Gaelic football in many counties. It'll be like hurling!

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1625 on: February 21, 2019, 04:16:23 PM »
My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

You see this is what it leads to. I've been saying it for years. What do you think other counties are going to do to try to keep up? Invest huge money themselves! Some have done it at senior level with varying degrees of success. Others, like Kerry have tried to emulate Dublin's method, player creation is the key. Where does that leave us? Only counties with money can compete! That's the road we're going down. That's why this is such an important issue and one we have to tackle now. Look already at the calls for the b championship. That's the beginning of the end for Gaelic football in many counties. It'll be like hurling!

25 of those counties never kept up...

dublin7

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1626 on: February 21, 2019, 04:28:09 PM »
Again, you’re just not listening because you’ve no interest in listening.

Did Cluxton go from talented hot head to the best keeper of all time because of money?
It’s moronic nonsense to even suggest it. First, he copped himself on. Second, he worked his arse off so his god given talent could give the results that came. He’s an absolute freak of a man. A genius. A nutter. A hero. Money was and is completely and utterly irrelevant.

We’d no reliable freetaker in the pre Gilroy years. Mossy Quinn, Wayne McCarthy, Johnny McNally, Ray Cosgrove and a few more were all given the job, and were all not quite reliable enough. Almost impossible to win an All Ireland without a good freetaker.
I guarantee that no player in Ireland has put more practice into freetaking that Dean Rock. Living and working in Dublin has helped that considerably. Money has been irrelevant.
We’d no reliable full back for a good few years too. Trying the likes of Barry Cahill and Denis Bastick there!
But then came along Rory O’Carroll to make an enormous difference. Money again irrelevant.

New tactics from Gavin has allowed us to get away with playing 3 corner backs since Rory moved away. I also think opposition managers may have missed a trick in not going after what I think has been Dublin’s biggest weakness these last few years.

The GDOs have had practically zero influence on all Dublin hurlers and footballers. As I’ve said, our lads do get looked after very well, as do Mayo, Kerry, Kilkenny, Limerick and others. And we’ve no travel.

We have an amazing bunch of players and the crop is only growing due to population, not money. But boy, we’re going to miss Clucko when he’s gone, and I doubt the next guy up after Rock will be as prolific.

It's the other way round, you're not listening because you don't want to.

I've heard all these excuses before. The money isn't irrelevant, Cluxton is irrelevant. Was he not a genius prior to 2011? Along came a host of new players from the production line. Look up your defence from that year, that's what won you that All Ireland.

Again, these players you are talking about came through the system! They were created by top class coaching. That includes Rock, O'Carroll and a host of others. You can't have a highly financed elite player pathway put in place on one hand and then denying it had anything to do with creating elite level players on the other!

Apart from actually creating top class talent, having your underage system bankrolled has freed up funds for other areas. Hiring a professional basketball coach is one area that has paid dividends. Having a whole list of other paid coaches and backroom staff also helps.

I have provided tables which show exactly what paid coaches and a highly financed system can bring to a county. I see you've ignored the club one I just posted. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Denying millions upon millions of euro has had a huge effect on Dublin GAA is like claiming black is white.
The elite player pathway has NOTHING to do with the millions in games development funding.
Unpaid ex-player volunteers coach the Dublin development panels. GDOs don’t go next nor near them.
Yes, they are well looked after with meal plans, dieticians, etc but same as many other counties.
And if they get to senior panel, there’s a plethora of coaches, and some of them are getting well paid, but again same as Kerry, Mayo, etc, although i’d say we have more and pay more, but again totally irrelevant to the GDO funds which goes to clubs

If the GDO funding stopped, it wouldn’t impact one iota on the funding for the elite teams. Completely different pots. If the GDO funding stopped, we’d just halve the number of GDOs, clubs would likely band together to have one between two.

Club game is flourishing in Dublin. As I said, it’s a numbers games.  More players, more members, more contributions, so super facilities. Huge numbers of volunteer coaches.  Very good organization of club games in the county (exception being the U21s). We have most of the biggest clubs in the country, clubs with huge picks, will inevitably win many club AllIrelands over the next decade in both codes.
On a very serious note, can you say where the millions spent on games development is actually going?
It certainly isn’t being spent on coaching kids in primary schools.
I am not saying there is a fiddle of any sort here but I can see any obvious signs of large sums of money being spent on anything to do with kids’ coaching/playing.

I live in Dublin 7 and Na Fianna is only down the road from me. In the summer they have mini leagues on during the week on the pitch for the kids in football and huring with several matches played on smaller pitches across the pitch from sideline to sideline. Hundreds of kids play every night and it's a great sight to see them all enjoying themselves. 

This in turn has led to an imrpovemtn in club standards, especially in the football.

J70

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1627 on: February 21, 2019, 04:34:15 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Are you taking the piss now?

No.

Will you be content as a Dub to continue strolling through Leinster every year and the All Ireland most years?

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1628 on: February 21, 2019, 04:42:24 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Are you taking the piss now?

No.

Will you be content as a Dub to continue strolling through Leinster every year and the All Ireland most years?

Do I want to see my team win?

We being serious?

The Hill is Blue

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1629 on: February 21, 2019, 04:48:28 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Dublin had a "conveyor belt" going in the late 70s and early 80's - All Ireland minor titles in '79, '82 and '84. All Ireland senior title in 1983 and runners up in '84 and '85 and all that after three senior titles in the 70s. No one was talking about a Dublin Thousand Year Reich then. That was mainly because there was a Kerry team that could compete.

If either or both of the two finals against Mayo had gone the other way (as they could easly have done) would this conversation be going on now? 
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

J70

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1630 on: February 21, 2019, 04:51:59 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Are you taking the piss now?

No.

Will you be content as a Dub to continue strolling through Leinster every year and the All Ireland most years?

Do I want to see my team win?

We being serious?

Yes.

Do you really, honestly give a bollocks about the Leinster senior championship right now? Will your hair stand on end as Dean Rock slots over another free to put you 10 or 12 points up in the final?

Rossfan

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1631 on: February 21, 2019, 04:54:15 PM »
My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

You see this is what it leads to. I've been saying it for years. What do you think other counties are going to do to try to keep up? Invest huge money themselves! Some have done it at senior level with varying degrees of success. Others, like Kerry have tried to emulate Dublin's method, player creation is the key. Where does that leave us? Only counties with money can compete! That's the road we're going down. That's why this is such an important issue and one we have to tackle now. Look already at the calls for the b championship. That's the beginning of the end for Gaelic football in many counties. It'll be like hurling!

25 of those counties never kept up...
If only feckin Laythrum would pull up their socks they  could be fightin it out with Dublin every year.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

The Hill is Blue

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1632 on: February 21, 2019, 05:03:31 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Are you taking the piss now?

No.

Will you be content as a Dub to continue strolling through Leinster every year and the All Ireland most years?

Do I want to see my team win?

We being serious?

Yes.

Do you really, honestly give a bollocks about the Leinster senior championship right now? Will your hair stand on end as Dean Rock slots over another free to put you 10 or 12 points up in the final?

If Mayo can compete as we know they can why can’t the likes of Meath and Kildare compete?
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

priceyreilly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1633 on: February 21, 2019, 05:04:21 PM »
Let's just cut this fantasy stuff about this kind of thing happened before, if we lost this game it would be different, we might lose again if this happens. Bullsh1t. This is unprecedented, it's a complete transformation of Dublin GAA at all levels, codes and grades. Club competitions, women's GAA, just every single section of Gaelic Games in Dublin has improved drastically and it directly coincides with the millions upon millions of euro pumped into their structures. This will not end. The money is still flowing. There will be no slow down, what we will see is an increased improvement in hurling and continued domination in football and club competitions. I'll post these tables again, look at the staggering transformation:












The Hill is Blue

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1634 on: February 21, 2019, 05:21:16 PM »
Let's just cut this fantasy stuff about this kind of thing happened before, if we lost this game it would be different, we might lose again if this happens. Bullsh1t. This is unprecedented, it's a complete transformation of Dublin GAA at all levels, codes and grades. Club competitions, women's GAA, just every single section of Gaelic Games in Dublin has improved drastically and it directly coincides with the millions upon millions of euro pumped into their structures. This will not end. The money is still flowing. There will be no slow down, what we will see is an increased improvement in hurling and continued domination in football and club competitions. I'll post these tables again, look at the staggering transformation:













“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8