Author Topic: Money, Dublin and the GAA  (Read 126969 times)

Hound

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1605 on: February 21, 2019, 07:36:48 AM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think itís probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. Itís very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless iíve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that thereís never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

TheGreatest

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1606 on: February 21, 2019, 08:13:41 AM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

I think that's a fair comment. Too early to tell but what I know and see there would not be a panel close to the current one for quite some time. Personally I think Kerry will do a Dublin over the next decade, hopefully only after this year!

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1607 on: February 21, 2019, 09:04:56 AM »
These volunteer coaches in Dublin must be unreal

larryin89

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1608 on: February 21, 2019, 09:28:21 AM »
Fook Dublin
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TheGreatest

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1609 on: February 21, 2019, 10:41:38 AM »
Fook Dublin

I agree, enough of this talk about Dublin, lock and close the thread.

Mayo Border

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1610 on: February 21, 2019, 11:19:40 AM »
Fook Dublin
Good point Larry. Elegantly put. Well done.

tyrone08

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1611 on: February 21, 2019, 12:20:25 PM »
Dont shoot me down but I have been wondering why Dublin haven't re-developed Parnell park for a bigger capacity or built a new ground?

Does anyone know how many people need to attend croke park in order for it to make a profit. I heard years ago a figure of around 40,000 but not sure if this is true.

I would imagine there is alot of cost involved in opening it up for games where only 30,000 or so attend.



TheGreatest

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1612 on: February 21, 2019, 12:37:44 PM »
Dont shoot me down but I have been wondering why Dublin haven't re-developed Parnell park for a bigger capacity or built a new ground?

Does anyone know how many people need to attend croke park in order for it to make a profit. I heard years ago a figure of around 40,000 but not sure if this is true.

I would imagine there is alot of cost involved in opening it up for games where only 30,000 or so attend.

Don't worry we wont shoot you.. yet

I believe the problem with Parnell Park is logistical and a planning issue. One side you have DCC owned Golf course, the other side is Craobh Ciaran and Ciarans school, extremely tight to the side of Parnell park.

Development could only take place from one side, to my knowledge, if DCC and Clontarf gold club agreed to allocated a small piece of land to Dublin to build a 2 tier stand. This probably wont happen.

I heard 40K also, but I don't think that's true, sure the top tiers are not opened, no cost, there is limited staff on and volunteers etc, but worth a fact check.



 

From the Bunker

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1613 on: February 21, 2019, 12:41:23 PM »
Dont shoot me down but I have been wondering why Dublin haven't re-developed Parnell park for a bigger capacity or built a new ground?

Does anyone know how many people need to attend croke park in order for it to make a profit. I heard years ago a figure of around 40,000 but not sure if this is true.

I would imagine there is alot of cost involved in opening it up for games where only 30,000 or so attend.

Parnell Park is fit for purpose for most of Dublins Domestic games. If anything there is a need for a decent ground in the north Midlands, like Athlone. Years ago Cake Curran came up with the decent proposal that Westmeath and Roscommon together should invest in a decent Ground and centre of excellence there. There would be loads of back door, under 20 games that could be facilitated there.

The Hill is Blue

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1614 on: February 21, 2019, 12:54:12 PM »
These volunteer coaches in Dublin must be unreal

Volunteer coaches with underage teams have made an enormous contribution to the development of Gaelic games in Dublin. And it has to be said that very many of these dedicated coaches originate from outside of Dublin (some are even from Westmeath).
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Rossfan

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1615 on: February 21, 2019, 01:13:25 PM »
As far as I recall that Ä30k to break even figure for Croker was based on the annual cost of running the place divided by the number of fixtures.
The cost at that time included the repayment of loans now paid off.
I'd imagine the gate money from 2 AI Semi Finals would likely cover all the running costs nowadays.
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J70

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1616 on: February 21, 2019, 01:23:23 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think itís probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. Itís very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless iíve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that thereís never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

The Hill is Blue

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1617 on: February 21, 2019, 03:38:47 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think itís probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. Itís very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless iíve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that thereís never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack OíShea, Ambrose OíDonovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
     
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1618 on: February 21, 2019, 03:58:13 PM »
Pricey you should just stop. You whinge about Dublin and their successes but as everyone points out you haven't put forward any plan for how you would spend the money. That's like punishing New Zealand for being consistently brilliant a rugby. Your fantasy world approach seems to be give everyone loads of money and dont give dublin anymore without any oversight or plan in place as how it should be invested. That doesn't have a history of working well in Ireland.

You've probably been too busy stalking the Dublin football team training in DCU so far this year to notice, but the on going fiasco in this country in relation to building the children's hospital is what happens when you just throw money at something without a clear plan and leadership.

 ;D The Dubs are just pathetic, a never ending stream of deflection! But since you brought it up, I will give you a brief outline of the plan.

Firstly, the monster must be slain. Dublin gets split into the 4 counties, Fingal, Dublin city, South Dublin, Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown.

Similar to what Dublin got, every county gets a strategic development officer and various other officers answering to them.

A development plan is drawn up for each county. What problems each county face, how to deal with them, how to promote the game, how to increase playing numbers, how to increase competitivity in both codes and so on.

All counties will be given appropriate funding to implement the plans drawn up.

The development officers will have targets to reach and progress will be monitored.

That's just a brief outline. It would ensure all counties compete on an equal footing. It would be fair and equatable.

What is stopping any of this happening now in the other 31?

You can't implement a plan like this without finance! It's as simple as that. It wouldn't have worked in Dublin without the huge resources pumped in and it won't work anywhere else. Counties have gone to HQ with plans to improve their development and have had the door slammed in their faces. It's time we claimed our games back from the money men. Whatever way we go about it, we can't continue on the path we're on. It's destroying Gaelic games in many counties.

Now you are being special. Dublin did the much mocked Blue Wave document and then got funding.

Name one county that had 'the door slammed in their faces'?
I think the problem with Dublin's high level of funding goes back to 2004 at least. I donít know enough about this to say itís true or false but the subject has come up here many times before.
Di any other county have the door slammed in its face when they went knocking for extra grants money? Several did, if you were to go by complaints that have been posted on this board.
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priceyreilly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1619 on: February 21, 2019, 04:00:02 PM »
The elite player pathway has NOTHING to do with the millions in games development funding.
Unpaid ex-player volunteers coach the Dublin development panels. GDOs donít go next nor near them.
Yes, they are well looked after with meal plans, dieticians, etc but same as many other counties.
And if they get to senior panel, thereís a plethora of coaches, and some of them are getting well paid, but again same as Kerry, Mayo, etc, although iíd say we have more and pay more, but again totally irrelevant to the GDO funds which goes to clubs

If the GDO funding stopped, it wouldnít impact one iota on the funding for the elite teams. Completely different pots. If the GDO funding stopped, weíd just halve the number of GDOs, clubs would likely band together to have one between two.

Club game is flourishing in Dublin. As I said, itís a numbers games.  More players, more members, more contributions, so super facilities. Huge numbers of volunteer coaches.  Very good organization of club games in the county (exception being the U21s). We have most of the biggest clubs in the country, clubs with huge picks, will inevitably win many club AllIrelands over the next decade in both codes.

They are not separate pots, it's one giant pot all connected! The GDOs do help with getting to kids at a young age, skill development, directing them towards clubs and then when they're at the clubs. You're forgetting, if Dublin GAA had to pay full costs for this, then it takes money from all the other areas. With the cost covered, they then have resources to pay for the elite pathway, they have money to pay for all the professionals, all the areas needed to develop the conveyor belt of elite athletes they have been.
Then with the increased success created by the work of the GDO's and the elite pathway, along came the increased sponsorship. Huge money from many areas which allows for elite preparation for senior teams. It's all connected, one leads into the other. What it has caused is the monster/behemoth whatever you want to call it. The superclubs are also connected, they are not just a coincidence. They didn't just grow out of nowhere.
Every county has volunteers, every county works hard at all levels. What every county doesn't have is the huge resources that Dublin has to set up a professional system of player creation and senior team preparation. This is the difference and the results are there for all to see. The number of inter county titles has increased fourfold, the same with club titles. 4 times as many titles, that's what this level of finance can buy.