Author Topic: Money, Dublin and the GAA  (Read 127031 times)

trileacman

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #405 on: September 20, 2017, 11:35:10 PM »
Worth listening to
http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA
Sean kelly's opinion is a f**king disgrace. Typical gaa big wig attitude, "smaller counties are the problem, if only we could marginalise and exclude them from the championship proper it would be great."

He was always a muppet anyway.

I thought he was reasonably sound but he's one w**ker there. f**k the rest, save the cash cow.

Real "pull the ladder up, sod the rest" stuff.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

TheGreatest

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #406 on: September 21, 2017, 08:26:42 AM »
Ewan McKenna getting a national platform like that is really poor, its been proven his figures are correct, even corrected on Twitter last night when he said their was 100 professional coaches in Dublin, there is no where near that number.

And Dublin will never be split up. Fans would walk away, GAA lose a cash cow.

What might happen is you could have a Fingal team entering division 4, but they would finish bottom.

Owenmoresider

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #407 on: September 21, 2017, 08:53:00 AM »
Ewan McKenna getting a national platform like that is really poor, its been proven his figures are correct, even corrected on Twitter last night when he said their was 100 professional coaches in Dublin, there is no where near that number.

And Dublin will never be split up. Fans would walk away, GAA lose a cash cow.

What might happen is you could have a Fingal team entering division 4, but they would finish bottom.
Fingal in terms of the council area would include Brigid's, Castleknock, Peregrine's, Skerries, St Sylvester's, Fingallians, Fingal Ravens, Naomh Mearnog and St Maur's from the senior football ranks, I'd imagine you'd get a team out of that capable of operating a little higher than D4.

TheGreatest

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #408 on: September 21, 2017, 08:55:32 AM »
Ewan McKenna getting a national platform like that is really poor, its been proven his figures are correct, even corrected on Twitter last night when he said their was 100 professional coaches in Dublin, there is no where near that number.

And Dublin will never be split up. Fans would walk away, GAA lose a cash cow.

What might happen is you could have a Fingal team entering division 4, but they would finish bottom.
Fingal in terms of the council area would include Brigid's, Castleknock, Peregrine's, Skerries, St Sylvester's, Fingallians, Fingal Ravens, Naomh Mearnog and St Maur's from the senior football ranks, I'd imagine you'd get a team out of that capable of operating a little higher than D4.

I don't think Brigid's and Castleknock fall into the Fingal territories? But if so then you would have uproar to who gets Kilkenny and Paddy Andrews etc.

Owenmoresider

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #409 on: September 21, 2017, 09:19:28 AM »
Ewan McKenna getting a national platform like that is really poor, its been proven his figures are correct, even corrected on Twitter last night when he said their was 100 professional coaches in Dublin, there is no where near that number.

And Dublin will never be split up. Fans would walk away, GAA lose a cash cow.

What might happen is you could have a Fingal team entering division 4, but they would finish bottom.
Fingal in terms of the council area would include Brigid's, Castleknock, Peregrine's, Skerries, St Sylvester's, Fingallians, Fingal Ravens, Naomh Mearnog and St Maur's from the senior football ranks, I'd imagine you'd get a team out of that capable of operating a little higher than D4.

I don't think Brigid's and Castleknock fall into the Fingal territories? But if so then you would have uproar to who gets Kilkenny and Paddy Andrews etc.
Brigid's is out along the Navan Road towards the M50 and the city council ends at the Ashtown roundabout, Castleknock and Blanchardstown are in Fingal CC.

Falcao

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #410 on: September 21, 2017, 09:19:42 AM »
Like this?




There are 2 major issues I can see with the development money received per registered player figures, which render them completely inaccurate.

1. The figures only cover development funding paid from the Central Council directly to the counties. Dublin receive most of their dev funds this way whereas the other counties receive the bulk of their games dev funding from their provincial councils. For example in 2015, Connacht received 796k, Munster almost 1.2m, Leinster 1.7m and Ulster 1.27m.

According to the figures on the image, this 5 million distributed by provincial councils is assumed to have disappeared down a black hole. Due to this 5 million not being accounted for, every figure shown on the map is incorrect, and that is a fact.

How a professional journalist can repeatedly reference these figures, which he knows do not cover all of the money distributed is beyond me, although in this case I think the agenda of the journalist is pretty clear.

2. It is illogical to divide the funding received by the no. of Registered GAA players in the county. The funding is not just used to coach already registered players.  For example it funds Cul Camps which are held for 6-13 yr old's and coaching in primary schools. I think it is safe to assume that a lot of these kids are not registered GAA players and some schools that coaches are sent to would in fact have very little registered GAA players.

The only reason I can see for this calculation is to push the numbers up for Dublin. If funding was divided by population or number of juveniles (registered and unregistered) that benefited from the funding then Dublin's amount per head would be reduced significantly.

Dublin also receive development funds from the provincial council.

Yes but they get majority of it directly from central council, where as other counties get their majority from provincial council. So as the figures on the image only cover funds direct from central council what we are seeing is the comparison of a majority of Dublin's funding against a minority of the 31 other counties funding.

Then this is skewed further by dividing by registered players which doesn't really make sense.

AZOffaly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #411 on: September 21, 2017, 09:23:27 AM »
Falcao, most kids are registered players. If you are on club grounds and partaking in club activities, you must be registered, so I bet most of them are registered. In the schools, yes, there may not be as many, but registered players is a fairly decent way of measuring the money I think.

In other counties, the percentage of registered players wouldn't be in the teens either, so there's a lot of kids in schools all around the country that aren't registered.

Your point re the provincial councils is well made, but there's a lot of doubt about where that provincial money is being spent. Maybe if they said this is the per player amount we are going to donate, and do it directly from central council, that would be fairer and more transparent.

By the soundings coming from the top table, they are beginning to realise this can't continue. No point having a cash cow if there's no other livestock to play with!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 09:26:37 AM by AZOffaly »

Orchard park

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #412 on: September 21, 2017, 09:25:17 AM »
Like this?




There are 2 major issues I can see with the development money received per registered player figures, which render them completely inaccurate.

1. The figures only cover development funding paid from the Central Council directly to the counties. Dublin receive most of their dev funds this way whereas the other counties receive the bulk of their games dev funding from their provincial councils. For example in 2015, Connacht received 796k, Munster almost 1.2m, Leinster 1.7m and Ulster 1.27m.

According to the figures on the image, this 5 million distributed by provincial councils is assumed to have disappeared down a black hole. Due to this 5 million not being accounted for, every figure shown on the map is incorrect, and that is a fact.

How a professional journalist can repeatedly reference these figures, which he knows do not cover all of the money distributed is beyond me, although in this case I think the agenda of the journalist is pretty clear.

2. It is illogical to divide the funding received by the no. of Registered GAA players in the county. The funding is not just used to coach already registered players.  For example it funds Cul Camps which are held for 6-13 yr old's and coaching in primary schools. I think it is safe to assume that a lot of these kids are not registered GAA players and some schools that coaches are sent to would in fact have very little registered GAA players.

The only reason I can see for this calculation is to push the numbers up for Dublin. If funding was divided by population or number of juveniles (registered and unregistered) that benefited from the funding then Dublin's amount per head would be reduced significantly.

Dublin also receive development funds from the provincial council.

is there a similar map to show provincial and central council funding. I had my doubts over accuracy of the map given Cork was so low but can anyone show somehting with total of provincial and central council funding and then a reasoned debate can be had

AZOffaly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #413 on: September 21, 2017, 09:31:27 AM »
Lads, I'm confused. Are ye saying Dublin is *not* disproportionately financed? Because if ye are, then ye are the first I've heard say that. Even GAA people at the top table will accept that. The rationale for it is what they lean on. "We have to boost Dublin because....". Not even the highest level of GAA would say Dublin is getting no more than anyone else. They don't even say that on a per player basis.


Most of the time the argument is that money doesn't make a difference, it's all down to the great work being done behind the scenes, or else it's just a fluke of having a brilliant crop all arrive together.

I genuinely haven't heard anyone in authority, or even on here, claim that the funding is equitable before.

TheGreatest

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #414 on: September 21, 2017, 09:39:44 AM »
People also forget that its not just for the registered players. Its promoting non traditional areas and schools.

The argument is cheap and Ewan McKenna is a cheap journalist. He actually compared Dublin to PSG which is an insult to the thousands of volunteers and club people in Dublin, he wouldn't be so brave if he had to argue his point to a room full of volunteers in a big club in Dublin. Off the Ball is also losing its appeal, the two Kildare friends got it off their chest now.....

If you think there should be now funding to promote our National game to children, then there is something wrong with you.


Orchard park

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #415 on: September 21, 2017, 09:47:07 AM »
Lads, I'm confused. Are ye saying Dublin is *not* disproportionately financed? Because if ye are, then ye are the first I've heard say that. Even GAA people at the top table will accept that. The rationale for it is what they lean on. "We have to boost Dublin because....". Not even the highest level of GAA would say Dublin is getting no more than anyone else. They don't even say that on a per player basis.


Most of the time the argument is that money doesn't make a difference, it's all down to the great work being done behind the scenes, or else it's just a fluke of having a brilliant crop all arrive together.

I genuinely haven't heard anyone in authority, or even on here, claim that the funding is equitable before.


.
I am not suggesting that I am asking if anyone has the combined figures for external GAA money ie provincial and central council funds . I dont know the figures my self hence the request before being able to debate same

AZOffaly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #416 on: September 21, 2017, 09:55:30 AM »
People also forget that its not just for the registered players. Its promoting non traditional areas and schools.

The argument is cheap and Ewan McKenna is a cheap journalist. He actually compared Dublin to PSG which is an insult to the thousands of volunteers and club people in Dublin, he wouldn't be so brave if he had to argue his point to a room full of volunteers in a big club in Dublin. Off the Ball is also losing its appeal, the two Kildare friends got it off their chest now.....

If you think there should be now funding to promote our National game to children, then there is something wrong with you.

Nobody is saying that at all. I've already said the Dubs are spending their money well.

If you think a child in Tipperary should have LESS funding than a child in Coolock, then there's something wrong with you.

Falcao

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #417 on: September 21, 2017, 10:29:17 AM »
I'm saying that the numbers in the image are incorrect and deceiving, I think we can both agree on that now?

I don't agree that per registered player is a fairly decent way of measuring the money. If a coach goes to a school in Dublin and spends an hour with a class of 30 pupils, going by participation rates you could be looking at 2-3 kids that are registered with their GAA club and over 25 that are not. Yes, it is the same in other counties, but to a lesser extent and with the higher number of schools in Dublin this makes the number of non registered kids receiving coaching in proportion to registered much higher. In the below graphic from 2015 you can see there are 98,906 registered GAA members between age 8 - 12 but there are 707,973 primary school pupils nationally.

I don't think the imbalance is anywhere near as major as it is being portrayed as being in most quarters. Looking at the numbers attending Cul Camps throughout the country from the below graphic, there is obviously decent levels of funding there in other counties as well. Even on a per registered player status, proportionately there are still much higher numbers attending Cul Camps in Tipperary, Cork, Galway etc than there are in Dublin.



AZOffaly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #418 on: September 21, 2017, 10:43:59 AM »
Sorry Falcao, I disagree fundamentally. And as I've said, even top level GAA figures agree that Dublin are getting far more money (whichever ratio you use) than other parts of the country. If it really was as fair and equitable as you seem to think, do you not think the leading GAA men would be out rubbishing these figures?

Anyway, we won't solve it here, but all I know is there is not enough money in coaching in the other counties, and that's my bug bear. And hearing people say other counties should get their houses in order is fairly annoying when you see exactly how stretched we are on the ground.

Dublin should be the model for other counties.

Orchard park

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #419 on: September 21, 2017, 10:56:21 AM »
azoffaly,

you make good points, unlike  alot of contributors here who think penalising Dublin is the way forward........more money to others and copy the structures of Dublin is way forward.

there is much claptrap written about GPOs etc by the likes of Ewan Mckenna . I would venture every Dublin juvenile team is coached by a parent or club loyalist then very same as in Mayo, Rosocmmon, Offaly and anywhere else.
The biggest advantage that Dublin has is fresh batch every year of country born GAA men and women due to economic migration now residing in the capital, and they are the backbone of most juvenile sections in Dublin. The other cities benefit from this to a lesser degree but its something most counties dont have