Author Topic: Money, Dublin and the GAA  (Read 165322 times)

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #180 on: November 16, 2016, 11:28:23 AM »
And to keep to the title of the thread, the Friends of Dublin raised over 7 grand yesterday for a pair of AI tickets for next year and a signed Diarmuid Connolly jersey, SEVEN GRAND!  :o :o :o
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AZOffaly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #181 on: November 16, 2016, 11:29:53 AM »
They should have asked Lee Keegan for one. With all the handfuls he's collected, he's bound to be able to stitch together a full jersey. :)

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #182 on: November 16, 2016, 12:56:45 PM »

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #183 on: November 16, 2016, 01:07:39 PM »

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.

Agree with all that Hound, that tallies with all I've seen and heard.
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Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #184 on: November 16, 2016, 01:21:39 PM »

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 02:00:21 PM by Lar Naparka »
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Croí na hÉireann

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #185 on: November 16, 2016, 05:25:26 PM »

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
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Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #186 on: November 16, 2016, 07:36:34 PM »

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Actually, I’ve been going to great lengths to emphasise that I’m referring to both types of dropouts. Both are inevitable consequences of young players growing up. My point is that the  superclubs approach is not the best way to entice children to join a GAA club or to keep them involved until they are old enough to make up their own minds.
Such clubs offer many advantages to incoming players that small, more localised units can’t offer but their dropout rates, for either reason, tend to be much higher.
As you put it diplomatically, Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, don't concentrate on all the available talent to them but I’d also add that they don’t do a good job of holding onto them either. Nothing personal here; it’s just the way the system operates.
One of my nephews played hurling with Ballyboden until the end of his u14 season.  There had been four sides fielded by the club then at the time but the lad was devastated to find that there would be only two sides at u15 level and that he was not going to get his place.
Now, I don’t particularly want to blame anyone for this - something similar happens in most clubs all the time. I can’t offhand think of any club I’m familiar with that fields more than two minor level teams. (May be open to correction here but I don’t think so.)
What is indisputable is that any club fielding 6 or 7 u9s sides or the likes won’t be able to give places to all kids who want to stay on as they move up the ranks.
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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #187 on: November 16, 2016, 11:19:18 PM »
I see they have to travel to Wexford or Portlaoise for the Leinster Q Final.
I imagine the Laoishites won't be too impressed - they couldn't play Dublin in O'Moore Park but Carlow can!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 11:42:04 PM by Rossfan »
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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #188 on: November 16, 2016, 11:43:58 PM »
Bitta egg on the faces of the Leinster Council there. Portlaoise wasn't good enough, or big enough to host the Dubs last year, but it is this year? Okey dokey then.  ::)

Croí na hÉireann

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #189 on: November 17, 2016, 09:51:20 AM »

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Actually, I’ve been going to great lengths to emphasise that I’m referring to both types of dropouts. Both are inevitable consequences of young players growing up. My point is that the  superclubs approach is not the best way to entice children to join a GAA club or to keep them involved until they are old enough to make up their own minds.
Such clubs offer many advantages to incoming players that small, more localised units can’t offer but their dropout rates, for either reason, tend to be much higher.
As you put it diplomatically, Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, don't concentrate on all the available talent to them but I’d also add that they don’t do a good job of holding onto them either. Nothing personal here; it’s just the way the system operates.
One of my nephews played hurling with Ballyboden until the end of his u14 season.  There had been four sides fielded by the club then at the time but the lad was devastated to find that there would be only two sides at u15 level and that he was not going to get his place.
Now, I don’t particularly want to blame anyone for this - something similar happens in most clubs all the time. I can’t offhand think of any club I’m familiar with that fields more than two minor level teams. (May be open to correction here but I don’t think so.)
What is indisputable is that any club fielding 6 or 7 u9s sides or the likes won’t be able to give places to all kids who want to stay on as they move up the ranks.

When did that happen Lar? Ballyboden have 3 minor football teams for a start and with people dropping away naturally that filters down to 2 u21 teams.
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Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #190 on: November 17, 2016, 11:49:27 AM »

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Actually, I’ve been going to great lengths to emphasise that I’m referring to both types of dropouts. Both are inevitable consequences of young players growing up. My point is that the  superclubs approach is not the best way to entice children to join a GAA club or to keep them involved until they are old enough to make up their own minds.
Such clubs offer many advantages to incoming players that small, more localised units can’t offer but their dropout rates, for either reason, tend to be much higher.
As you put it diplomatically, Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, don't concentrate on all the available talent to them but I’d also add that they don’t do a good job of holding onto them either. Nothing personal here; it’s just the way the system operates.
One of my nephews played hurling with Ballyboden until the end of his u14 season.  There had been four sides fielded by the club then at the time but the lad was devastated to find that there would be only two sides at u15 level and that he was not going to get his place.
Now, I don’t particularly want to blame anyone for this - something similar happens in most clubs all the time. I can’t offhand think of any club I’m familiar with that fields more than two minor level teams. (May be open to correction here but I don’t think so.)
What is indisputable is that any club fielding 6 or 7 u9s sides or the likes won’t be able to give places to all kids who want to stay on as they move up the ranks.

When did that happen Lar? Ballyboden have 3 minor football teams for a start and with people dropping away naturally that filters down to 2 u21 teams.
Well, he's 23 now so that's about six years ago. But note I was talking about u15 hurling and not u18 football.  I'd imagine that more play football than hurling but I could be wrong. However, he wasn't the only one who was told that he'd not get a game anymore. From what I was told there was a definite cull in numbers at that age level. I accept what you say about three minors feeding into 2 u21s okay. That's what one would expect.
However, Ballyboden would have (still, I presume) far more than 3 u10s.
Even if the improbable were true and those who didn't get to play minor had left of their own volition, it's still a very inefficient way of getting youngsters to join and stay with a Gaelic club.
BTW, I've nothing personal against any Dublin club or Jim Gavin & Co. for that matter. I also realise tat for practical reasons, the superclubs are going to be around for the foreseeable future.
MY point all along is that the CC in pouring money into the present Dublin club sceneis helping to perpetuate a system with significant flaws.
I mentioned Isles because there's no other, similar club in its vicinity so it has a well-defined catchment area. This happens to be equal in population to the entire county of Cavan. Cavan is hardly likely to win an AI anytime soon but it has a thriving and energetic football community and, between its 41 clubs, a helluva lot more Gaelic players that Isles has.
If by some stroke of I dunno whatever, black magic maybe, the entire island was to adopt the Dublin model and hoover up all players into huge clubs such as 'Boden or Vincents, what future would there be for the GAA?
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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #191 on: November 17, 2016, 12:34:22 PM »
But you can't just create clubs in cities. You need playing facilities and people willing to drive it. I doubt anyone would argue that it's ideal to have a club catering for 50-60,000 people but it isn't easy to solve that problem, especially in built up areas where available land is limited and expensive.

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #192 on: November 17, 2016, 12:40:09 PM »

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Actually, I’ve been going to great lengths to emphasise that I’m referring to both types of dropouts. Both are inevitable consequences of young players growing up. My point is that the  superclubs approach is not the best way to entice children to join a GAA club or to keep them involved until they are old enough to make up their own minds.
Such clubs offer many advantages to incoming players that small, more localised units can’t offer but their dropout rates, for either reason, tend to be much higher.
As you put it diplomatically, Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, don't concentrate on all the available talent to them but I’d also add that they don’t do a good job of holding onto them either. Nothing personal here; it’s just the way the system operates.
One of my nephews played hurling with Ballyboden until the end of his u14 season.  There had been four sides fielded by the club then at the time but the lad was devastated to find that there would be only two sides at u15 level and that he was not going to get his place.
Now, I don’t particularly want to blame anyone for this - something similar happens in most clubs all the time. I can’t offhand think of any club I’m familiar with that fields more than two minor level teams. (May be open to correction here but I don’t think so.)
What is indisputable is that any club fielding 6 or 7 u9s sides or the likes won’t be able to give places to all kids who want to stay on as they move up the ranks.

When did that happen Lar? Ballyboden have 3 minor football teams for a start and with people dropping away naturally that filters down to 2 u21 teams.
Well, he's 23 now so that's about six years ago. But note I was talking about u15 hurling and not u18 football.  I'd imagine that more play football than hurling but I could be wrong. However, he wasn't the only one who was told that he'd not get a game anymore. From what I was told there was a definite cull in numbers at that age level. I accept what you say about three minors feeding into 2 u21s okay. That's what one would expect.
However, Ballyboden would have (still, I presume) far more than 3 u10s.
Even if the improbable were true and those who didn't get to play minor had left of their own volition, it's still a very inefficient way of getting youngsters to join and stay with a Gaelic club.
BTW, I've nothing personal against any Dublin club or Jim Gavin & Co. for that matter. I also realise tat for practical reasons, the superclubs are going to be around for the foreseeable future.
MY point all along is that the CC in pouring money into the present Dublin club sceneis helping to perpetuate a system with significant flaws.
I mentioned Isles because there's no other, similar club in its vicinity so it has a well-defined catchment area. This happens to be equal in population to the entire county of Cavan. Cavan is hardly likely to win an AI anytime soon but it has a thriving and energetic football community and, between its 41 clubs, a helluva lot more Gaelic players that Isles has.
If by some stroke of I dunno whatever, black magic maybe, the entire island was to adopt the Dublin model and hoover up all players into huge clubs such as 'Boden or Vincents, what future would there be for the GAA?
Will check that out Lar but I'd be shocked if they went from 4 teams at u14 to 2 at u15. You don't loose 2 teams over the course of a year. I would agree that some of these catchment areas are too big but the space to base new teams just isn't there inside the M50.
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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #193 on: November 17, 2016, 01:09:21 PM »
Will check that out Lar but I'd be shocked if they went from 4 teams at u14 to 2 at u15. You don't loose 2 teams over the course of a year. I would agree that some of these catchment areas are too big but the space to base new teams just isn't there inside the M50.

There's just no way Ballyboden told lads at U15, "you're just not good enough, clear off"
Not a hope.

At under 15 level, I think matches move from Saturday to Sunday, so it brings a clash with soccer, and at that age anyway with exams coming on the scene it's very hard to combine soccer and GAA, like it would have been in previous years, so there's a natural drop off of lads who choose one code, and lads who give up altogether.
But if Ballyboden had only 2 teams, then it was because they didn't have enough lads to make up a 3rd team.

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #194 on: November 17, 2016, 01:17:54 PM »
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.
Erin's Isle may have one of the biggest catchment areas in Dublin, but they'd hardly be in the Top 15 of big clubs in Dublin in terms of membership / playing numbers. Because Erin's Isle's catchment area is almost irrelevant.

It's like picking a club up North and saying they get very poor numbers given the big catchment area they have, and it turns out 75% of the people in their area are protestant and most of them wouldn't send their kids to a GAA club.

Finglas is soccer land. That's just a simple fact. And you'd have a sizeable proportion of locals in Finglas who clean hate the GAA, and wouldn't turn on a gaelic match unless they thought they might see the Dubs get beaten and wouldn't dream of letting their lads near a GAA club. And each of those fathers would have a story of how they were slighted by GAA during the Ban. (and of course it's not only Finglas that has sizeable soccer areas)