Author Topic: Money, Dublin and the GAA  (Read 101979 times)

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1635 on: February 21, 2019, 05:21:50 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Are you taking the piss now?

No.

Will you be content as a Dub to continue strolling through Leinster every year and the All Ireland most years?

Do I want to see my team win?

We being serious?

Yes.

Do you really, honestly give a bollocks about the Leinster senior championship right now? Will your hair stand on end as Dean Rock slots over another free to put you 10 or 12 points up in the final?

Yes. Crush the barbarians. Doubly so because of the culchie vagina straining.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1636 on: February 21, 2019, 05:23:13 PM »
Let's just cut this fantasy stuff about this kind of thing happened before, if we lost this game it would be different, we might lose again if this happens. Bullsh1t. This is unprecedented, it's a complete transformation of Dublin GAA at all levels, codes and grades. Club competitions, women's GAA, just every single section of Gaelic Games in Dublin has improved drastically and it directly coincides with the millions upon millions of euro pumped into their structures. This will not end. The money is still flowing. There will be no slow down, what we will see is an increased improvement in hurling and continued domination in football and club competitions. I'll post these tables again, look at the staggering transformation:













You keep repeating these numbers without offering a solution.

And you are needed on the galway finances thread

J70

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1637 on: February 21, 2019, 05:23:55 PM »
Arra musha Jesus Christ Bunker. I hope Parke win the Intermediate championship this year to cheer you up a bit. Seriously.

Anyway, Clucko, MDMA, Philly, Kev McM are 2 years older than 2017 too. I'm not yet convinced the players coming through are quite as good. Cue the Dubs such as The Greatest lecturing me about certain underage panels hammering the shite out of everyone.

My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

I'm hesitant to get involved in this (not informed enough), but is the worry of many NOT that there is likely no end to the dominance of Dublin? At least with the Kerry 70s/80s team, they had an extraordinary group of talented players, but it was the same core group all the way through, who then got old together, leading to the disappearance of Kerry from the top end for more than a decade. Dublin appear to have an endless conveyor belt of highly talented players (whatever the cause) coming through and obviously the fear is that, with the ever-growing population advantage (allied to the funding in some people's eyes), they are going to be entrenched as far and away the best side in the country for years to come.

Lets say Dublin do win five in a row, then maybe even six or seven, and on an ongoing basis seven or eight of the next ten All Irelands (assuming some other county brings through a top class group now and again, as Kerry might currently be developing), all the while continuing to hoover up meaningless Leinster titles without breaking a sweat, what's the long term effect of that? At what point does the splitting up of Dublin, assuming things continue on their current trajectory, become a serious consideration? Or does it ever?

Dublin's current "conveyor belt" of talent isn't any different to that of other successful teams of the past. The great Kerry team of 1975 morphed through many iterations between '75 and '86. Great players who joined after 1975 included Charlie Nelligan, Eoin Liston, Jack O’Shea, Ambrose O’Donovan and others.

The great Dublin team of the 1970s which competed in six All Ireland finals in a row was rebuilt in the early 80s and won the AI title in 1983. The 1983 team was backboned by the AI minor winners of 1979 and 1982 - with stars like John O'Leary, Barney Rock, Joe McNalley and Kieran Duff arriving on the scene. And talking about conveyor belts, as well as winning minor in '79 and '82, Dublin also won in '84 with young stars like Jimmy Stynes and Paul Clarke
   

Ah here... Liston was on board for their second win in '78, Nelligan and O'Shea the year before. The vast bulk of that Kerry team moved through the years together as a group, same as most successful teams. Whereas key Dublin players over the past eight years have been seamlessly replaced with arguably even better players in some cases. Obviously it remains to be seen what will happen over the next few years, but if the high standards are maintained, despite turnover, and the Dubs continue to dominant completely and utterly, breaking records at all levels of the senior championship, when, if ever, does it become time to question it?

Dublin had a "conveyor belt" going in the late 70s and early 80's - All Ireland minor titles in '79, '82 and '84. All Ireland senior title in 1983 and runners up in '84 and '85 and all that after three senior titles in the 70s. No one was talking about a Dublin Thousand Year Reich then. That was mainly because there was a Kerry team that could compete.

If either or both of the two finals against Mayo had gone the other way (as they could easly have done) would this conversation be going on now?

That's the whole point, isn't it?

Is the current conveyor belt REALLY equivalent to that late 70s/early 80s one? Is it going to dry up, in terms of elite national level, like that one did?

As for Mayo, they put it up to Donegal in the final in 2012 as well, but yet again, just not good enough on the day when the chips were down. The Dubs had the players to stand up or bring in to swing things their way. Mayo didn't.

And even if Mayo (singularly) matched up fairly well with Dublin, despite always falling short, it doesn't take away from the whole issue. Mayo lose to other teams. Dublin have been caught out once by a tactical masterclass by Jim McGuinness over the past six seasons. A game which no one saw coming and which never happened again.

The only other championship game they've lost since 2010 was the 2012 semi to Mayo, when they were again caught out yet nearly pulled it out.

That's two games over eight seasons you've had to taste defeat.

But that's the past.

My question is, if it keeps going like this for the next four five years, easy win after easy win, with maybe a tough-won AI final thrown in (or even one lost due to a poor day out), will you lads be happy with that and keep turning out?

Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1638 on: February 21, 2019, 05:37:34 PM »
My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

You see this is what it leads to. I've been saying it for years. What do you think other counties are going to do to try to keep up? Invest huge money themselves! Some have done it at senior level with varying degrees of success. Others, like Kerry have tried to emulate Dublin's method, player creation is the key. Where does that leave us? Only counties with money can compete! That's the road we're going down. That's why this is such an important issue and one we have to tackle now. Look already at the calls for the b championship. That's the beginning of the end for Gaelic football in many counties. It'll be like hurling!

25 of those counties never kept up...
That's fair enough. I remember Jimmy Grey, the club chairman,  saying when the controversy over the proposed Dublin Metro erupted, that upwards of 2,000 youngsters used the club's facilities. That's an unbelievable number but Jimmy is a gentleman and I wouldn't doubt his word.
I have also heard of a junior club (Rathmines Gaels?) that was protesting at City Council plans to take away their only pitch, which is out somewhere in Inchicore. According to their spokesman, they had 400 kids involved. Again, the number is amazing. I can also see why the junor club needs extra help but Na Finna is not in the same category, IMO.
They already have the pitches and changing rooms and most of their activities are internal games. They also depend on selfless volunteers to organise and coach the underage players. Do they need the same per capita grant aid as does the junior club? I often think that Dublin's volunteer coaches perform a massive baby sitting service for busy mums and disinterested dads all over Dublin.
To see what I mean, take a good look at the hordes of kiddies, running about an generally having a thoroughly enjoyable experience.
Then try to viualise the number that will still be around at senior level. Better still, how many would you expect to be still active club members at minor level or , say, u15  and other age levels you care to think of? There is a frightening haemorrhage of members as the age levels increase.
Why is this?
If you were looking at the number of children involved in most rural clubs at  weekends, you'd be lucky to count thirty or thereabouts. Yet the percentage of those who will stay with their clubs and become active members of their community will be far higher. Again, the reason for this should be fairly obvious to all.

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priceyreilly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1639 on: February 21, 2019, 05:47:48 PM »
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

 ;D This is absolutely hilarious! Your attempt to play this off as just one of those things has been completely blown out of the water and that's all you can respond with!

priceyreilly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1640 on: February 21, 2019, 05:49:40 PM »
You keep repeating these numbers without offering a solution.

And you are needed on the galway finances thread

I have offered the solution and you have proved yourself to be completely clueless on this topic. You didn't even know the blue wave was released.  ;D

The Hill is Blue

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1641 on: February 21, 2019, 06:52:51 PM »
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

 ;D This is absolutely hilarious! Your attempt to play this off as just one of those things has been completely blown out of the water and that's all you can respond with!

What odds would you offer about Dublin NOT winning another a senior football title until after 2025.
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

dublin7

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1642 on: February 21, 2019, 07:02:47 PM »
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

 ;D This is absolutely hilarious! Your attempt to play this off as just one of those things has been completely blown out of the water and that's all you can respond with!

You suggested splitting Dublin in 4. Who pays for the new grounds that will be needed? They can't all use Parnell Park. Have you any idea how hard it would be to buy that much land around Dublin? You must know how much it would cost given your obsession with everything Dublin

priceyreilly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1643 on: February 21, 2019, 07:10:22 PM »
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

 ;D This is absolutely hilarious! Your attempt to play this off as just one of those things has been completely blown out of the water and that's all you can respond with!

What odds would you offer about Dublin NOT winning another a senior football title until after 2025.

1,000,000,000/1.

priceyreilly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1644 on: February 21, 2019, 07:18:07 PM »
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

 ;D This is absolutely hilarious! Your attempt to play this off as just one of those things has been completely blown out of the water and that's all you can respond with!

You suggested splitting Dublin in 4. Who pays for the new grounds that will be needed? They can't all use Parnell Park. Have you any idea how hard it would be to buy that much land around Dublin? You must know how much it would cost given your obsession with everything Dublin

You make a mistake, not your first, definitely won't be your last. My obsession is not with Dublin, my obsession is Gaelic Games. If it was another county financially doping, I'd be talking about them. It's not though, it's Dublin.

Some of the superclubs have had no problem expanding. The grounds wouldn't be an issue.

Rossfan

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1645 on: February 21, 2019, 08:02:04 PM »
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

 ;D This is absolutely hilarious! Your attempt to play this off as just one of those things has been completely blown out of the water and that's all you can respond with!

You suggested splitting Dublin in 4. Who pays for the new grounds that will be needed? They can't all use Parnell Park. Have you any idea how hard it would be to buy that much land around Dublin? You must know how much it would cost given your obsession with everything Dublin
The new Dublin Provincial Council could provide 1 Stadium for all its Counties ;)
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dublin7

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1646 on: February 21, 2019, 08:16:30 PM »
It's interesting that for all the obsessing over Dublin's finances no one seems to have any problem with the fixture mess every year and player burn out. College players are being flogged with games/training at a time if the year when pitches are at their worst bit all everyone seems outraged with is how many games the dubs get in croke park and how much money is spent on promoting football for youngsters. The mind boggles

The Hill is Blue

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1647 on: February 21, 2019, 08:29:34 PM »
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

 ;D This is absolutely hilarious! Your attempt to play this off as just one of those things has been completely blown out of the water and that's all you can respond with!

You suggested splitting Dublin in 4. Who pays for the new grounds that will be needed? They can't all use Parnell Park. Have you any idea how hard it would be to buy that much land around Dublin? You must know how much it would cost given your obsession with everything Dublin
The new Dublin Provincial Council could provide 1 Stadium for all its Counties ;)

Whereas the new county of Roscommonsligoleitrim would have a number of grounds to choose from.
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

From the Bunker

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1648 on: February 21, 2019, 08:33:50 PM »
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I assume you’ve consulted with a bookie about the odds he might give you on Dublin winning a given number of titles over say the next ten years. It would be a pity not to cash in on your obsession.

BTW: Any thoughts on how this weekend’s round of League games will go.

 ;D This is absolutely hilarious! Your attempt to play this off as just one of those things has been completely blown out of the water and that's all you can respond with!

What odds would you offer about Dublin NOT winning another a senior football title until after 2025.

No body will care by then!  ;)

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #1649 on: February 21, 2019, 08:59:28 PM »
My brother has a lad on Dublin development U15 panel, and last year they beat Offaly by some ridiculous score, 15-10 to 0-2 , or something along those lines. Scary stuff. But Kilmacud Crokes probably have as a big a pick as Offaly these days.

Given the numbers and the efforts by the (volunteer!) coaches, Dublin seriously underachieve at minor. Thankfully really! I think it’s probably down to not having a settled line up until just before. It’s very hard to predict what the minor team will be prior to the first championship game, because of the large pick. I honestly never much care about minor All Irelands, unless i’ve a clubman on the team.  For me, the most important, is the couple of lads each year who might improve the senior team.

With all the threads about the Dubs, it is funny that there’s never any talk on the board about what other counties can do to copy Kerry. Their recent minor success is absolutely amazing. What can other counties do to try and replicate it?
God almighty, imagine the crying if Dubs were achieving at minor!

You see this is what it leads to. I've been saying it for years. What do you think other counties are going to do to try to keep up? Invest huge money themselves! Some have done it at senior level with varying degrees of success. Others, like Kerry have tried to emulate Dublin's method, player creation is the key. Where does that leave us? Only counties with money can compete! That's the road we're going down. That's why this is such an important issue and one we have to tackle now. Look already at the calls for the b championship. That's the beginning of the end for Gaelic football in many counties. It'll be like hurling!

25 of those counties never kept up...
That's fair enough. I remember Jimmy Grey, the club chairman,  saying when the controversy over the proposed Dublin Metro erupted, that upwards of 2,000 youngsters used the club's facilities. That's an unbelievable number but Jimmy is a gentleman and I wouldn't doubt his word.
I have also heard of a junior club (Rathmines Gaels?) that was protesting at City Council plans to take away their only pitch, which is out somewhere in Inchicore. According to their spokesman, they had 400 kids involved. Again, the number is amazing. I can also see why the junor club needs extra help but Na Finna is not in the same category, IMO.
They already have the pitches and changing rooms and most of their activities are internal games. They also depend on selfless volunteers to organise and coach the underage players. Do they need the same per capita grant aid as does the junior club? I often think that Dublin's volunteer coaches perform a massive baby sitting service for busy mums and disinterested dads all over Dublin.
To see what I mean, take a good look at the hordes of kiddies, running about an generally having a thoroughly enjoyable experience.
Then try to viualise the number that will still be around at senior level. Better still, how many would you expect to be still active club members at minor level or , say, u15  and other age levels you care to think of? There is a frightening haemorrhage of members as the age levels increase.
Why is this?
If you were looking at the number of children involved in most rural clubs at  weekends, you'd be lucky to count thirty or thereabouts. Yet the percentage of those who will stay with their clubs and become active members of their community will be far higher. Again, the reason for this should be fairly obvious to all.

They are a hurling renting off a football club. Football club is selling land and telling them to do one. Nothing to do with the council.

But you have hit the nail on the head. The money is going to middle class superclubs who currently provide a better babysitting service than soccer or rugby. But retention is poor, at 15 they are playing different sports. But look at the Dublin teams, mostly from.affluent areas. So its partially working, but risky.