Author Topic: Money, Dublin and the GAA  (Read 131358 times)

blast05

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #120 on: October 17, 2016, 10:20:08 PM »
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Gentlemen, gentlemen , Gentlemen. You will never learn.

I will come back here when somebody gets the books opened from each of the 32 county boards over the last 30 years so we can analyse them.

OK .... i'll start with the most recent 3 Mayo ones ... can you do the same for Dublin please ?
2013: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls
2014: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf
2015: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf

I'm not interested in the population discussion. I'm interested in the money side of things and not just the coaching money (which has been put to excellent use in fairness but is not a level playing field either as we all know)
How is it that Ciaran Kilkenny can spend 2 week in Donegal doing teacher training in weeks leading up to the draw but can get flown down to training via helicopter.... who pays for that? The Dublin based Mayo boys of course criss-crossing the country - half the time squeezed into back seats - for 4 hours each way with 20+ hours driving between draw and replay either to Castlebar (or once to Athlone).

Dublin have a level of professionalism that even Tomas O'Se doesn't understand.
It reminds of when Emilyn Mulligan was interviewed before they played Roscommon and said that since the new Leitrim training facility opened that the Leitrim senior team lacked for absolutely nothing. Nonsense of course... more a case of him not knowing what he didn't have.
Same with Mayo - players are apparently happy with everything they have - setup, facilities, etc, etc. Would they though prefer the Ciaran Kilkenny mode of transport for travelling down from Dublin & elsewhere for training.............


Oh and the population .... we would have won the All-Ireland in 1841 v Dublin ...  :P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin
Dublin population 372,000.
Mayo population 388,000
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 11:23:25 PM by blast05 »

Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #121 on: October 17, 2016, 10:32:37 PM »
Lar, leaving the money issue aside, what is your problem with Dublin's population? I would imagine what others are trying to say is its not Dublin's fault more people are living there than Clare, Carlow etc. Wasn't it always this way?

I don't know about the money issue - I don't care what McGeeney, Mayo Backroom team, Micko etc were on and I don't know the intricate details of GPOs etc in Dublin but I don't get the issue of Dublin's population.
That’s fair enough. Dublin has always had more people than any other county and it has always been that way. But having a disproportionately large percentage of the population gives Dublin a massive head start over all opposition.
Greater and better facilities available, larger player pool to select from and more lucrative sponsorship deals with any company that is interested. You can add in the fact that the vast majority of players will find employment or attend college somewhere in their own vicinity.
Darran O’Sullivan spoke of the five hour commute, four or five times a week, to and from training; no Dublin players has that sort of obstacle to face.
Really, the size of the population means an awful lot in many ways.
Leitrim will never challenge for AI honours and neither will at least 20 more counties- they don’t have the population; ergo, they don’t have the same resources.

But your issue is more with the geographical / economic make-up of the country than with the Dublin football team?
You are right.
I never had any problems with Jim Gavin or the Dubs’ team. I feel you’ll find that AZ and most other posters here think along the same lines. It’s no fault of the Dublin GAA that the gap in every conceivable way between the Greater Dublin Area (The Pale for history buffs) and the rest of the country is steadily widening.
Rural depopulation may not mean much to Dublin people but it means the death of whole communities to those in more remote parts of the island. Smaller clubs are either amalgamating or going out of existence altogether and it gets harder and harder for small rural regions to keep their AA club ticking over.
In Mayo we have a club named Parke-Keelogues-Crimlin and it’s easy to see that there was once three clubs where there  is only one now. Much the same story all along the western seaboard.
The Dublin CB decided to take remedial action after an embarrassing defeat to Meath in 2010. So they did their calculations and submitted proposals to Central Council.
This was “The Blue Flag” project and this is what has started the present aggro between the ‘Haves’ and the ‘Have Nots.’
According to the infographic I linked to in my last post, Dublin gets €274 per registered player, while Mayo gets just €22.
Now, the CC has come along with the ‘East Leinster Project’ where they plan to pump €1.5m into the commuter counties around Dublin for an initial 3 years.
Dublin got a total of €4m in development funds last year, whereas Longford got just over €140,000 but are still expected to compete on equal terms with Dublin whenever they meet.
As I see it, as the political and commercial landscape changes and the movement of people from the west coast to the east continues, the gap  between the GAA  in Dublin and in the rest of the country will continue to widen.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

blast05

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #122 on: October 18, 2016, 11:10:12 PM »
Well Aristocrat, any chance of providing links to the Dublin accounts ? I presume they are publicly available but I just can't find them....

Fuzzman

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #123 on: October 19, 2016, 09:38:02 AM »
I don't give a flying f*ck what people spend on their senior teams. I'm talking about Coaching and Development monies that Dublin receive. If it doesn't make a difference, give it back. Of course I'm being facetious. I know it makes a difference, and I know they are spending it very wisely. It just gets on my tits when people pretend it has nothing to do with the quality of player Dublin can produce.

This is the most important point of all this discussion. Yes we already know Dublin has a lot of other advantages which have been there for years and often they didn't use them to their full potential but Dublin GAA decided to follow the Tyrone model and focus a lot more on their underage structures. For years they were not winning minor or U21 titles so they put plans in place to address that. 2012 and 2003 was their last two minor titles whereas they've won U21 titles in 2010, 2012 and 2014.
My own kids attend our local GAA club nursery every Sat and the number of kids taking part is huge. You see older kids walking around wearing GAA shirts now a lot more so of course all this money and time invested in the kids development will mean Dublin will continue to develop much more quantity of better footballers than around the country.

Also, how often do you see young Dublin players going off to Aussie rules? We see today Kerry's young Mark O’Connor heading off to see how he gets on and if he likes it or not?
We saw Jack McCaffrey and young Kilkenny go off a few years ago to check it out as well but neither stayed as the pull of life back in Dublin near the famiy and friends was too much. If you live in rural Kerry or Tyrone there isn't as many attractions to keep you there.

My concern for the GAA is that as the Dublin super club seems to attract all the big players who move to Dublin and dominate, the same will happen at county level where they will continue to produce more and more top quality players who come through the underage system conveyor belt and dominate for several years.

Rossfan

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #124 on: October 19, 2016, 11:17:47 AM »
Long term the GAA will have to reconsider what might be termed "representative" football.
Do they make Dublin a Province with 4 Co Boards and 4 County teams?
Or do we make the All Ireland SFC a more Regional thing with units of around 0.5 m population to compete with Dublin and the future heavily populated Meath and Kildare?
Keep the Counties for NFL and Provincials but then have a separate AI SFC?

We all want as many people as possible playing Gaelic games but we need competitive competitions too that don't exclude the vast majority of us.
While we're at it what sort of oenetration have our games got in Cork, Limerick, Galway cities or Nationalist areas if Belfast and Derry?
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

AZOffaly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #125 on: October 19, 2016, 12:01:03 PM »
Limerick City for years was a wasteland for GAA, and to be honest it's still fairly under represented. Na Piarsaigh and Monaleen would probably be the two biggest clubs, but even they sort of congregate at the opposite ends of the city. In areas where Pike Rovers, Janesboro, Fairview, etc operate there are little or no GAA clubs. I would say there are more Rugby Clubs than GAA clubs in Limerick City. Off the Top of my head I can think of Shannon, Old Crescent, UL Bohemians, Young Munster, Richmond, Saint Marys, Garryowen and Thomond. In GAA I can only think of Saint Patricks, Milford, Monaleen, Claughaun and Na Piarsaigh. I may be missing a few of either list, but it's stark. Soccer would have more than either.


Galway I know was a similar situation. In fact apart from Salthill/Knocknacarra and Liam Mellows I suppose, I don't know of any other clubs in the city.

Rossfan

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #126 on: October 19, 2016, 12:36:47 PM »
Is St James's a City club?
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

skeog

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #127 on: October 19, 2016, 12:46:17 PM »
Must be a few bob down in Wexford the bill for Davy and Banty be in the 6 figure bracket easily.

Lar Naparka

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #128 on: October 19, 2016, 03:14:46 PM »
I mentioned fifteen counties that, between them, have less people than Dublin.
Supposing those counties could somehow amalgamate in order to present a united challenge to the Dubs, what would the likely outcome be?

For starters 14 senior panels, along with 14 senior club championships would dissolve and this would continue on down to the lowest levels.
It would mean the end of representative football for an untold number of u21s, minors and younger players.
Certainly, the county teams in every grade would have top class players in every position but it would also mean an awful lot more would have to drop out if they failed to make it to the top.
In such a conglomerate, the club as the hub of the community will have come to the end of its days.
Super teams for club or county are very good at recognising talent and putting it to good use but they cater only for the elite.

Anyone can look at the likes of Vincent's or Ballyboden and say that GAA games are thriving in the capital when they see hundreds of u8s or 9s togged out at weekends.
It’s easy to forget that a very large number will have gone by the time they reach 15 or 16. All sports experience a drop out as children get older but in GAA games the problem is worse than in any other because the numbers catered for decrease as kids get older.
Maybe the Dublin CB is using the development funds it gets “wisely” but it’s concentrating on quality rather than quantity and, long term, that’s not good for the game.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Cunny Funt

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #129 on: October 19, 2016, 03:59:31 PM »
Dublin seniors 1996 to 2010 didn't reach any All Ireland final. 2011 to 2016 Dublin win 4 All Irelands. I haven't seen that all of sudden dominance in sport since Michelle Smith in the Olympics 20 years ago  ;)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 04:01:13 PM by Cunny Funt »

mup

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #130 on: October 20, 2016, 08:01:18 AM »
Well Aristocrat, any chance of providing links to the Dublin accounts ? I presume they are publicly available but I just can't find them....

Aristocrat doesn't provide links.

Dinny Breen

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #131 on: October 20, 2016, 09:02:12 AM »
Dublin have plenty of money to spend on spin too. The media is full of propaganda on how it's due to talent not money the last week.
#newbridgeornowhere

AZOffaly

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #132 on: October 20, 2016, 09:11:04 AM »
Dublin have plenty of money to spend on spin too. The media is full of propaganda on how it's due to talent not money the last week.

It is due to talent. Talent nursed and encouraged in well funded coaching structures.

gammysolo

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #133 on: October 20, 2016, 09:25:56 AM »
Is St James's a City club?

Correct and St Michaels are in the city too

gammysolo

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Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
« Reply #134 on: October 20, 2016, 09:29:28 AM »
Quote
Gentlemen, gentlemen , Gentlemen. You will never learn.

I will come back here when somebody gets the books opened from each of the 32 county boards over the last 30 years so we can analyse them.

OK .... i'll start with the most recent 3 Mayo ones ... can you do the same for Dublin please ?
2013: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls
2014: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf
2015: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf

I'm not interested in the population discussion. I'm interested in the money side of things and not just the coaching money (which has been put to excellent use in fairness but is not a level playing field either as we all know)
How is it that Ciaran Kilkenny can spend 2 week in Donegal doing teacher training in weeks leading up to the draw but can get flown down to training via helicopter.... who pays for that? The Dublin based Mayo boys of course criss-crossing the country - half the time squeezed into back seats - for 4 hours each way with 20+ hours driving between draw and replay either to Castlebar (or once to Athlone).

Dublin have a level of professionalism that even Tomas O'Se doesn't understand.
It reminds of when Emilyn Mulligan was interviewed before they played Roscommon and said that since the new Leitrim training facility opened that the Leitrim senior team lacked for absolutely nothing. Nonsense of course... more a case of him not knowing what he didn't have.
Same with Mayo - players are apparently happy with everything they have - setup, facilities, etc, etc. Would they though prefer the Ciaran Kilkenny mode of transport for travelling down from Dublin & elsewhere for training.............


Oh and the population .... we would have won the All-Ireland in 1841 v Dublin ...  :P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin
Dublin population 372,000.
Mayo population 388,000

Have you link for that? How can the rest of us compete with that when players have helicoptors on standby.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 12:07:24 PM by gammysolo »