All Ireland Final Replay 1st October 2016 Dublin vs Mayo

[moysider]

I was sure that Small was going to get a red card as well after he put the yellow back in his pocket. The rumors are going to be flying from now till eternity about the goalie change but for what ever reason I am sure Rochsford felt it would be an advantage to his team.Did read in the Mayo News on friday night that Hennelly was warming up with a few min. to go in the drawn game and seemed ready to come on.Even that was an eyeopener for me as I could see no reason for making a change like that so late in the game.I suppose that was the hint that it had been on managements mind all along.

It appears the decision was made shortly after the drawn match. Anyway no way that Hennelly would have been landed with starting the night before the game or anything. This Mayo camp is tight and little leaks out but management are very thorough and Hennelly wasn't just landed with this. Makes it all more depressing that he was like a bag of nails from the start.
I still think it was a crazy call. Clarke had a wobble with kick-outs in drawn but movement had dried up for him as well amd surely management should have worked sorting out that rather than throwing the baby out of the bath water. I would give management some slack if they were bringing in a steady keeper but Hennelly has also has issues with kick-outs in the past - one of which turned the Galway game. He's also had a costly history dealing with long ball coming into his space.

[Cunny Funt]

On mayogaablog Hennelly received a high amount of votes for man of the match.

Who was our MOTM against Dublin?

Paddy Durcan (41%, 290 Votes)
Kevin McLoughlin (13%, 92 Votes)
Seamus O'Shea (11%, 79 Votes)
Robbie Hennelly (11%, 76 Votes

[moysider]

On mayogaablog Hennelly received a high amount of votes for man of the match.

Who was our MOTM against Dublin?

Paddy Durcan (41%, 290 Votes)
Kevin McLoughlin (13%, 92 Votes)
Seamus O'Shea (11%, 79 Votes)
Robbie Hennelly (11%, 76 Votes

Dublin voters.

[Cat and Cage]

Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.

I'm normally a neutral but this time was strongly for Mayo.

They were unlucky. Victory can look inevitable in hindsight and there are many Dublin supporters who think the result was predestined but Mayo could easily have won that given one or two breaks.

However: the Keegan black was what the black was brought in for in the first place. He brought Connolly down. The only confusion arises because he's skillful about it: he makes it look as if he's just jostling a bit and lets go quickly when the damage is done. But c'mon. He went for a result and he got it.

On the other hand Deegan bottled it completely on Small. A far clearer case. Simple cowardice on Deegan's part.

On another point I have to agree with those who thought this was a high quality game. It was immense. I have many good memories of the old days but standards were not higher and in many cases were much lower.

[moysider]

Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.

I'm normally a neutral but this time was strongly for Mayo.

They were unlucky. Victory can look inevitable in hindsight and there are many Dublin supporters who think the result was predestined but Mayo could easily have won that given one or two breaks.

However: the Keegan black was what the black was brought in for in the first place. He brought Connolly down. The only confusion arises because he's skillful about it: he makes it look as if he's just jostling a bit and lets go quickly when the damage is done. But c'mon. He went for a result and he got it.

On the other hand Deegan bottled it completely on Small. A far clearer case. Simple cowardice on Deegan's part.

On another point I have to agree with those who thought this was a high quality game. It was immense. I have many good memories of the old days but standards were not higher and in many cases were much lower.

The black card rule is clear. The player has to be pulled down, not go to ground as a result of a pull or drag. That's just a free or penalty. The referee should not factor in intent unless it is dangerous play (that's yellow or red anyway)  and clearly that was not an issue there. The issue about it being a scoring opportunity doesn t come into it either as others have suggested.

[Cat and Cage]

Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.

I'm normally a neutral but this time was strongly for Mayo.

However: the Keegan black was what the black was brought in for in the first place. He brought Connolly down. The only confusion arises because he's skillful about it: he makes it look as if he's just jostling a bit and lets go quickly when the damage is done. But c'mon. He went for a result and he got it.

The black card rule is clear. The player has to be pulled down, not go to ground as a result of a pull or drag. That's just a free or penalty. The referee should not factor in intent unless it is dangerous play (that's yellow or red anyway)  and clearly that was not an issue there. The issue about it being a scoring opportunity doesn t come into it either as others have suggested.

You prompted me to look up the rule. I'm not so sure I can agree that it's clear!

The summary on gaa.ie says its for cynical fouls:
"Deliberately pull down an opponent.
Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
Deliberately body collide [the official guide just says "collide"] with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official."

Small's case must be exhibit A (I think), or what's the point of the rule? If he must get off because he grabbed an ankle not to pull down Moran but instead stop him scoring a goal, then there's something amiss. Maybe the third part is the one that fits: he has acted for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play. (Is grabbing someone's ankle a "body collide"? Debatable.) If he intended to trip, then the second part fits, but did he? He acted deliberately to hold Moran back, sure, but trip him? Debatable again.

I'd prefer to judge Small as deliberately taking Moran out of a movement of play, with a broad definition of "collide". The alternative of judging it not a black card seems to be too literalist.

Keegan was deliberately keeping Connolly out of a movement of play--I assume that's not in dispute. Did he "collide" with him enough to qualify for a black card? I'd say yes--it wouldn't have been outrageous if he had gotten away with it but all the same he seemed to cross a line.

(Hennelly? Hmm.)

[Bord na Mona man]

The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.

The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.

[Farrandeelin]

Good God, i've just watched Keegans black card...... i'm dumbstruck. Connolly dived (he did NOT end up on the ground through interference from Keegan so therefore it could not be a black card by the letter of the law).
Connolly talked Deegan into giving the black card - pathetic
Christ, no sleep again tonight after watching that.

I'm normally a neutral but this time was strongly for Mayo.

However: the Keegan black was what the black was brought in for in the first place. He brought Connolly down. The only confusion arises because he's skillful about it: he makes it look as if he's just jostling a bit and lets go quickly when the damage is done. But c'mon. He went for a result and he got it.

The black card rule is clear. The player has to be pulled down, not go to ground as a result of a pull or drag. That's just a free or penalty. The referee should not factor in intent unless it is dangerous play (that's yellow or red anyway)  and clearly that was not an issue there. The issue about it being a scoring opportunity doesn t come into it either as others have suggested.

You prompted me to look up the rule. I'm not so sure I can agree that it's clear!

The summary on gaa.ie says its for cynical fouls:
"Deliberately pull down an opponent.
Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
Deliberately body collide [the official guide just says "collide"] with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official."

Small's case must be exhibit A (I think), or what's the point of the rule? If he must get off because he grabbed an ankle not to pull down Moran but instead stop him scoring a goal, then there's something amiss. Maybe the third part is the one that fits: he has acted for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play. (Is grabbing someone's ankle a "body collide"? Debatable.) If he intended to trip, then the second part fits, but did he? He acted deliberately to hold Moran back, sure, but trip him? Debatable again.

I'd prefer to judge Small as deliberately taking Moran out of a movement of play, with a broad definition of "collide". The alternative of judging it not a black card seems to be too literalist.

Keegan was deliberately keeping Connolly out of a movement of play--I assume that's not in dispute. Did he "collide" with him enough to qualify for a black card? I'd say yes--it wouldn't have been outrageous if he had gotten away with it but all the same he seemed to cross a line.

(Hennelly? Hmm.)

Connolly strongly remonstrated to get Keegan a black.

[Farrandeelin]

On mayogaablog Hennelly received a high amount of votes for man of the match.

Who was our MOTM against Dublin?

Paddy Durcan (41%, 290 Votes)
Kevin McLoughlin (13%, 92 Votes)
Seamus O'Shea (11%, 79 Votes)
Robbie Hennelly (11%, 76 Votes

You seriously think ALL voters are Mayo people?

[DUBSFORSAM1]

The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.

The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.

Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?

[heffo]

The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.

The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.

Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?

You're not allowed ask those questions

[blast05]

The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.

The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.

Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?

You're not allowed ask those questions

If you can refer me to any incident similar to Dohertys where a red was issued then you'd have some argument. It should have been a yellow in my view.

[The Aristocrat]

The Keegan one can be debated, but the consensus before this had been that you has to drag a player all the way to the deck to be black carded. Ironically Dublin were one of the first teams to adopt the drag and release tackle to avoid getting black carded. They spent a lot of time working on this during training at the time.

The lack of consistency was when Connolly commited a similar round the neck challenge and escaped sanction. Deegan would have reduced Dublin to 14 men had he produced a card of any colour, since Connolly was already on a yellow. Underneath Hill 16 I think he bottled it. The.same goes for Mayo's penalty shout.

Did he also bottle sending Docherty off for taking Cooper out after the goal?

You're not allowed ask those questions

Exactly, I tell you if it was the other way around or Connolly did that there would be blue murder. People see what they want to see, of course the sour grapers will blame the ref, but look back at it again, twice. I suppose the sour grapers and begrudgers would say the ref help Dublin win 4 AIs in 6 years, 4 national leagues and 6 Leinsters too.

Dublin, greatest team ever to play the game, all good guys too, hard luck Mayo, I cant imagine the pain of it.

Club championship next weekend so no rest.

Too all other begrudgers on this site and elsewhere, enjoy the winter!

[galwayman]

A friend text me on Saturday morning about the rumoured selection of Hennelly ahead of Clarke. It was the first I'd heard about it but my reaction straight away was that it was good news for Dublin.
Have seen him in action a good bit and (no more than a lot of our keepers in Galway) he always seem to have one or two big mistakes per game in him.
Clarke much more solid.  One or two kickouts went astray towards the end of the drawn game but other than that he was extremely solid (plus he made 2 outstanding point blank saves) and almost always is.
For the life of me I couldn't get my head around why they would make that change. It's not as if Clarke's kickouts are terrible.

Another thing that surprised me - Barry Moran was on the pitch for the last 20 minutes of the game & cited in front of the Dublin goal along with O'Shea.
Mayo got one dubious enough free from a long ball into him.
Other than that - they barely kicked a ball into the goalmouth. I haven't watched the game back but that was impression at the time anyway. Why bring him on and have the 2 big men in there and then use the tactic so sparingly?

[Mac2]

There's no getting around the goalkeeper change it was a ludicrous call, we have no recognized full-back so Clarke was vital in this regard, the backs trust him under high ball he commands the square. It led to the concession of a number of scores and unsettled the team. Keegan would probably have gone on to be motm if he hadn't gone off, he should never have been put in that position. If the management were so daring as to drop Clarke how come they didn't have the balls to whip Hennelly off at half-time, he was in meltdown mode at that stage.