All-Ireland Final, September 18th, 2016 - Dublin v Mayo

[Cunny Funt]

Yeah, where's Indiana?
I'd love to know what went wrong with the Dubs and he usually has the inside track.

On a bad day Indiana said Dublin would score 17 points at least. Only 9 points they scored yesterday and only Indiana can really describe what type of day that was for Dublin.

[seafoid]

Yeah, where's Indiana?
I'd love to know what went wrong with the Dubs and he usually has the inside track.

On a bad day Indiana said Dublin would score 17 points at least. Only 9 points they scored yesterday and only Indiana can really describe what type of day that was for Dublin.

It was a bad day for positive thinking Dubs. They were so let down by the forwards. A lot of journalists were let down as well.
AIG were let down. A lot of players' dogs would have been very angry watching TSG

[Lar Naparka]

Here's the image I mentioned earlier. Is this a case of mutual respect or what?

[moysider]

 
Great game yesterday.

For me the result was almost like a victory. Unlike 96' draw and they semi draws last 2 years which felt like losses. I know the general consensus is that we blew it but I think we rescued it after some of the worst set-backs a team could get.

However while the own goals were freakish, at the same time they resulted from Dublin pressure. 
We had a few turn-overs with ball into ff line. That is acceptable because there is no way that Keegan, Durcan and Higgins can mark quality forwards and bomb up all the time as well. To be solid at the back we have to kick inside and hope for a break.
Mayo need to be more exact in possession overall.
One of my favourite players, Seamie O Sé had a meltdown of sorts in the second half when we had momentum and the Dubs got 2 scores of 4 his jitters.
Harsh, but that waywardness gave Dublin a foothold they should not have been given. A pivotal player can not afford to have a brain freeze like that if a team is going to win. It was surreal in a way. He was doing so much right; showing for ball, courageous, driving on, but ..... One of those things.

Seamie could have a mom game the next day.
Clarkey seemed to panic a bit after Small's point down the stretch as well and Dublin picked off 2 points from his kick-outs. He seemed to rush things, not realising that there is loads of 'injury' time now. Or Maybe it was just good Dublin pressure.
Mayo, as a result, ended up chasing a 3 point deficit at the end when it should have been only 1.

[Mayoffs]

Well, got home earlier this evening after a great weekend in the capital. The craic was mighty Saturday night and the place was giddy with excitement, even the normally cool headed Dubs were a bit nervous and so that's how it played out on the pitch the following day.
It's a game I'm still thinking about, in all my year's following Mayo I've never seen such a half of football as that first half. Mayo were bullying Dublin who couldn't settle yet we were lacking in front of goal again. AOS persistently carrying the ball into the tackle and then losing it was frustrating, yes he was on the receiving end of some pulling and dragging but that's no excuse for not distributing the ball sooner instead of looking for a free all the time. I'd put him into ff the next day with Coen beside him.
I don't believe in curses but after the second og went in I began to doubt myself, I see the curse even made the BBC news home page   
A fresh chance to banish the curse of Mayo - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37378935
Second half performance was again only middling, poor distribution again into the forwards along with some crazy unforced errors.
Defensively we were excellent especially Harrison and Durkan. Boyler not having a good year, I think time is catching up with him. Higgins will hopefully improve the next day.
Fenton had too much freedom, he needs to be marked. Also, I'd drop SOS for the next day.
It's a pity Dillon got injured when he did because I think we might have pinched it if his wise old head was on the field until the end, and last word to the other old head, Andy Moran. We'd have been well beaten but for him

[moysider]

Here's the image I mentioned earlier. Is this a case of mutual respect or what?

They are like an ould married couple at this stage. They are sick of one another and row most of the time but at the end of the day they love each other!
Both great players. Let them belt away. I think referees have wisely realised to let them be for the most part.

[moysider]

Well, got home earlier this evening after a great weekend in the capital. The craic was mighty Saturday night and the place was giddy with excitement, even the normally cool headed Dubs were a bit nervous and so that's how it played out on the pitch the following day.
It's a game I'm still thinking about, in all my year's following Mayo I've never seen such a half of football as that first half. Mayo were bullying Dublin who couldn't settle yet we were lacking in front of goal again. AOS persistently carrying the ball into the tackle and then losing it was frustrating, yes he was on the receiving end of some pulling and dragging but that's no excuse for not distributing the ball sooner instead of looking for a free all the time. I'd put him into ff the next day with Coen beside him.
I don't believe in curses but after the second og went in I began to doubt myself, I see the curse even made the BBC news home page   
A fresh chance to banish the curse of Mayo - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37378935
Second half performance was again only middling, poor distribution again into the forwards along with some crazy unforced errors.
Defensively we were excellent especially Harrison and Durkan. Boyler not having a good year, I think time is catching up with him. Higgins will hopefully improve the next day.
Fenton had too much freedom, he needs to be marked. Also, I'd drop SOS for the next day.
It's a pity Dillon got injured when he did because I think we might have pinched it if his wise old head was on the field until the end, and last word to the other old head, Andy Moran. We'd have been well beaten but for him

Boyle has been brilliant this year again. He was one of a few with drive in some of the earlier games.  You don't want him doing a marking job in last line but he is some warrior as well as being a top footballer. Years left in him.
No way can Seamie be dropped. He had a bit of a meltdown and it was costly but he has to get back on track. There is no Gibbons and no way Barry would be able to go with Fenton. Higgins was fine. Things have changed. The way we are set up means he will not be attacking much.
Dillon is a worry however. Him going off was costly because he steadied things after Seamie's wobble and after he got injured we wobbled again. I'm hearing 2 things about Dillon. One that it was an impact injury and another that is possible knee ligament issue. If it's the former he should be fine. If it's the latter, strap him up to f**k for a last push for the summit.
I'd have left Andy on. He still looked fresh enough.
Bastick may have picked that late kick out off the ground but the hit by Regan on Bastick might have been good foul to give away because we were not well set. On the other hand Dublin were living off our mistakes all day and were unlikely to be able to push for winning score.

[Syferus]

Connolly and Keegan have been banging away at each other quite happily since the '13 final or maybe earlier.
If anyone with a copy of the video of this game is interested enough to go and check back to around the 10th minute of the game, an off-the-ball incident was picked up by a camera with Connolly standing behind Keegan, tugging the collar of his jersey. The bould Lee didn't turn around but he was using his elbow to dig Connolly in the stomach or at least to break his grip.
Bu I also saw a photo somewhere where the two lads were pictured shaking hands and apparently about to swap jerseys at the end of the game.
Leroy and Diarmuid are probably the most fascinating match up in the country at present and both are absolutely vital to their respective sides. He who gains the upper hand next day will finish up on the winning side.

Higgins-JOD is a thousand times more watchable a match-up than Connolly and Keegan trying to out-macho each other. The former had a purity of skill sorely lacking in the latter. It's not defending, it's just two lads going out to belt and smash and niggle. No different to McMahon on O'Shea last year, only in this case the victim is easy to provoke.

Dublin get by just fine when Connolly is quiet too, because players like Flynn and Kilkenny are very skilled too and don't engage in nonsense. Connolly is grand when he keeps the head on but he loses it too frequently for a team to be reliant on him.

[moysider]

Connolly and Keegan have been banging away at each other quite happily since the '13 final or maybe earlier.
If anyone with a copy of the video of this game is interested enough to go and check back to around the 10th minute of the game, an off-the-ball incident was picked up by a camera with Connolly standing behind Keegan, tugging the collar of his jersey. The bould Lee didn't turn around but he was using his elbow to dig Connolly in the stomach or at least to break his grip.
Bu I also saw a photo somewhere where the two lads were pictured shaking hands and apparently about to swap jerseys at the end of the game.
Leroy and Diarmuid are probably the most fascinating match up in the country at present and both are absolutely vital to their respective sides. He who gains the upper hand next day will finish up on the winning side.

Higgins-JOD is a thousand times more watchable a match-up than Connolly and Keegan trying to out-macho each other. The former had a purity of skill sorely lacking in the latter. It's not defending, it's just two lads going out to belt and smash and niggle. No different to McMahon on O'Shea last year, only in this case the victim is easy to provoke.

Dublin get by just fine when Connolly is quiet too, because players like Flynn and Kilkenny are very skilled too and don't engage in nonsense. Connolly is grand when he keeps the head on but he loses it too frequently for a team to be reliant on him.

Not quite sure what you are about there.

But I will say this. Connolly gets no more from Keegan than likes of O Connor, McManus, O Sé, Gooch and others get.
If O Sé and others reacted to every pull and nudge like Connolly does they would hardly be treated as sympathetically by refs. Connolly gets nothing more than P Joyce, McDonald and others had to put up with every day they went out. The difference maybe is that Keegan is better than most defenders Connolly plays against. Connolly can overawe most defender with his size, speed and athleticism and then his football ability kills them. Keegan can match him with size, speed and athleticism and has the football radar as well.

40 yrs ago JB Murphy quit county football because he was horsed around by one corner back in particular and concentrated on football. Jamie Clarke seems to have got sick of been targeted by special attention as well. It's not new that good forwards get marked tightly.

[seafoid]

Jimmy's writing very good articles

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-mayo-need-something-new-and-unexpected-1.2797466

Jim McGuinness: Mayo need something new and unexpected

Sunday's All-Ireland final will be spoken about for many years because all of us in Croke Park left the stadium wondering if we could believe – or trust – what we had seen. The game was pitched into such a realm of strangeness, from the weather through to what happened on the field that it was like a deception.

As I flew back to Glasgow on Sunday night, I kept asking myself that question: just what happened out there?
All weekend, the build-up in Dublin was hugely expectant. I have never experienced such a demand for tickets. When I got a taxi in from the airport on Saturday, I got chatting to the driver who was a true Dubs supporter; genuine and knowledgeable, he had gone to see them in every game in the championship. And he could not get a ticket.

I took his card in the hope I could get him a ticket but I wasn't able to locate one. On Sunday, the one thing that struck me was that the crowd was up around Croke Park really early. It was as if both sets of supporters couldn't wait.
Last week here, I suggested that Mayo needed to go somewhere primal. There was an element of that in the jostling and pushing when the teams took to the field, but I don't feel it was contained in Mayo's overall performance.

My sense is that Dublin's underwhelming display is attributable to something within themselves more than what Mayo did to them. I don't think it is a coincidence that Dublin's last poor performance was in last year's All-Ireland final, even though they won then.
So much happened in the first half alone that it became difficult to break down and categorise. The critical man-to-man match up featured, as expected, Mayo's Lee Keegan picking up Diarmuid Connolly. Lee is a huge part of Mayo's attacking threat. The task of shadowing Diarmuid is considerable: he has been the best footballer in Ireland all summer. But Keegan is up there with him.


So the impact which both players can have goes a long way to shaping the dynamic of the game. There was a lot going on between them both off and on the ball: it was an intense and riveting confrontation.
It seemed that Lee edged their battle because Diarmuid has this unique array of power, running, strength, agility and that ability to kick off both feet, so it is a huge achievement to hold him to a single point. He is a frightening proposition and the way Lee coped with him was impressive.
However, that containment comes at a cost because they lost what Lee can offer to Mayo's attack. I felt Mayo started brightly and ran straight lines and forced Dublin to deal with that. They used Aidan O'Shea as an inside threat and he made himself a big, disruptive presence on the edge of the Dublin D. They were at the pitch of the game and their defenders – Colm Boyle, Brendan Harrison and Kevin McLoughlin – were so sharp and alive to everything.

Unforgettable
Then came those two bizarre, unforgettable goals. I was sitting beside James Horan for the first one. We were both in the Sky studio. The first goal happened and James's head went down. I just said something about it being really bad luck. James said: "That's an understatement."  When the second one went in, we were all stunned and I said: "James, I know you're not going to like this but you do have to question the concept of this curse." It was said in jest, but I had this sense that James never, ever stopped believing, which is indicative of the spirit within the squad.

Apart from those freak goals, Dublin had a serious amount of possession. But they were too methodical and not supporting the ball with attacking runs. They were cautious. Why? I was thinking about the Donegal game, when they knew they would face 14 men and that it would require huge patience and discipline and recycling. They were excellent in how they executed that and found the gaps to garner scores against Donegal.
But has that system or formula somehow seeped into their play? I felt I could see traces of that methodology in the Kerry game even though they kicked 0-22.

For me, the hallmark of previous Jim Gavin teams was their lightning transition into attack. That has slowed since the Donegal game. They are happy to recycle and wait. So there has been a shift that seemed very pronounced on Sunday.
Things you work on in the training ground can morph into other things. Dublin look at the Donegal game and say: 'Look, we went down to 13 men and we still controlled the game!' And then that drifts into your mindset and you become a more controlled, stilted version of what you were originally were.
The threat that Dublin have presented is that of a torrent: wave after wave of attack generated by Stephen Cluxton's laser-issue restarts. When you played Dublin, you were in for a busy day. Against Mayo, I felt they were too safe and methodical. At times I was urging them to go on.
In normal circumstances they are a fountain of support running and varied attack. They threatened at times here and just as in last year's final, it was often the final ball which betrayed them. We also shouldn't forget that Brian Fenton drew two important saves from David Clarke.
Still, Dublin only kicked 0-4 points in the first half and were ruffled: we saw Bernard Brogan kick a ball straight into the air. Dean Rock had a bad wide.

The key question is why. Mayo went man to man with Dublin all over the pitch, apart from Kevin McLoughlin. They didn't set up a bank of four and force Dublin to play through them. So the question is: did we witness a brilliant defensive job by Mayo or was it a consequence of conditions and of Dublin being too lateral and conservative and not providing the runners, which has been the blueprint of this team?

I'm not convinced that what happened to Dublin was down to Mayo. Yes, Mayo were competitive in the game. But they weren't bringing anything new. They were just doing what they had done before but with even more hunger. And once Dublin doubled up on Aidan O'Shea, I felt Mayo needed to go with at least two big men inside.
Ironically, the black card changed the game in Dublin's favour. I felt it was a mess of a call. Two guys run into each other and hit each other's shoulders. It wasn't a third-man tackle: it was just machismo on both players' part and McCarthy paid a heavy price. It beggars belief. That card needs to go.
But weirdly, as if this game needed more weirdness, the change brought Dublin back in to it through Paddy Andrews's two points from play. He got the engine started. So by half time, it was hard to weigh up what we had just seen.
Regardless, it was double scores at half time. In fairness, Mayo's response was excellent and spirited in the second half. Their moral courage is beyond reproach. But I would ask this again: what did they do differently?
From the Donegal 2012 final to Sunday is eight big knockout championship games and I would ask: what have we seen from Mayo that is different apart from the sweeper system? They haven't managed to win the All-Ireland so it stands to reason that they must do something different.

People will say they held Dublin to a de facto 0-9. I don't believe that the core truth of the game is about that. What we saw from Dublin was false, for whatever reason. Ninety-nine percent of the time a team will revert back to its average mean. The champions were below average on Sunday. It's the old saying that the favourite wins the replay. I think on October 1st, they will kick a lot more points.
Mayo were nothing if not brave. They thundered into the second half and scored 0-4 in five minutes. It was an inspirational burst. Then they kind of went missing offensively again, which is replicating a pattern throughout their championship. I scribbled a note: "Fifty minutes gone. Game in balance. Who wants it? "
What I was really saying was: this is Mayo's opportunity. Yet from that minute to the 74th, Dublin controlled the game. Mayo didn't bring the fire or the big hits. They were just treading water. I felt Paul Mannion did well for Dublin and you could see him or Eoghan O'Gara starting and Kevin McManamon reverting to impact substitute.
Yet Dublin were still labouring in attack. It was still cautious and defined by lateral passing. They are not afraid to go back the field. Interestingly, there were a number of attacks when they didn't have the bodies inside to kick the ball into. That was something we used to struggle with in Donegal sometimes: your forwards make runs and when the ball doesn't come in, they end up straying out to the 45.
That almost never happens with Dublin because the two corner forwards play on the byline and the full forward on the top of the D and they make 50-metre sprints across goal. There was a conspicuous absence of that on Sunday. Again: why?
I thought Dublin looked tired in the last 15 minutes. Had they won, they would have fallen over the line to their All-Ireland title. It is a long time since the Hill was so quiet. It is an All-Ireland final and they had nothing much to cheer about.

Catastrophic
However, when the match was in the balance, some of the Mayo decision-making was catastrophic. I was thinking: they need to get the ball to a marquee forward to drop the shoulder and slip inside and kick the ball over the bar. Just do simple things well.
Dublin have guys who could pop up and make those incisions and tag those scores on. They took control of possession and found a way to kick themselves into a three-point lead at the end of normal time. John Small was excellent in the second half and Jonny Cooper too. Donal Vaughan was a shining light for Mayo: had they won, he was the man of the match.

So: 70 minutes gone. And the board goes up and shows seven minutes just as Cillian O'Connor scores a free. And Dublin decide: let's just keep ball. And the longer you watched them do this, on a treacherous surface, you felt they would slip or make a mistake and cough it up. Yet they didn't. Their handling was very good and their composure was what we have all come to expect.
Then Vaughan steals in for a huge point and Dublin still try to manage the clock. Then came the sideline ball and with 30 seconds left, having kept the ball from the 70th minute to the 76th, Connolly decides to kick for a score. I can't get my head around this: a short sideline pass and they keep it and they have the All-Ireland.

After the shot goes wide, they fail to push up on the kick-out quickly enough and the ball goes out to a Mayo player on the Cusack Stand side and then it goes into the centre. There are 25 seconds left in the All-Ireland final and I notice that four Dublin players don't sprint back. I'm thinking: 15 behind the ball. Just survive for 25 seconds and it's over.
Instead, Mayo came through the middle. It was a magnificent point by O'Connor under pressure, but I couldn't believe Dublin didn't shut them down.
Why? That's a big question. Was it because they were out on their feet?
I asked a question here last week: can Mayo keep Dublin to 16 points? And if they can, what would that game look like? So they kept them to 0-9 and two own goals. But Sunday didn't look like the game I had imagined in my mind. I didn't see anything new or leftfield from Mayo.

I thought I might see two innovations: an off-the-hook, ultra-intense mentality. Don't get me wrong: some of the defending was lion-hearted and their recovery from the brink of another bleak All-Ireland defeat was hugely impressive. But I just didn't see the fire and gung-ho positivity that might have carried them to victory in the last 15 minutes of normal time. That only became visible when the cause was almost beyond their grasp.
Tenacious
And why not try something different? Why not go with not even two but three monsters at the edge of the square: O'Shea, Barry Moran and Tom Parsons? Bombard the square for a while and have the rest of the Mayo side defending as a unit of 12. Just see where that would bring them.
And if that doesn't work, have something else up your sleeve. I didn't see that. I just saw that familiar, very tenacious and honest Mayo team but nothing new. And I am fearful that Dublin will return to the norm in the replay and instead of kicking 0-9, they will kick 0-19. If it is a dry day, that will facilitate a higher scoring average.

Over the next fortnight, Mayo need to find a way to drag Dublin into the trenches because Dublin are vulnerable when they are brought there. I wouldn't be heaping too much praise on Mayo just yet. They've earned themselves another chance. But: they have another chance.
So can they come up with something? That's why I was talking about that primal dimension. Take Dublin back to that place when Brogan is skying the ball and Connolly is blasting the ball wide and they are addled. But I am not convinced that Mayo will do that in the replay. I feel it will be the same set-up: Aidan going in full forward and Andy and Cillian in the corner and Kevin McLoughlin playing sweeper.
I don't believe that will be enough. I think Mayo are saying to themselves: "We are as good as Dublin. We are good enough. We stick to our principles. We're going to win this because we are as good as Dublin." And, yes, you have to believe in yourself. But you also have to accept that that is not quite true. Pound for pound, Dublin carry more offensive threat than any football team in Ireland.
That doesn't mean Mayo can't become All-Ireland champions. I just a have a gut conviction that Mayo need to introduce something new and unexpected to finally shift the dynamic fully in their favour.
Only the two teams really know what happened out there. The rest of us have to wait for a fortnight for the true answers.

Leftfield :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3grqa6t71w

[The Aristocrat]

Told you all a few times in the last few weeks the ref and GAA would try their best to get Mayo over the line. Nearly worked too. Some of you nearly got your wish that the Dubs were beaten.

However, it show that the greatest football team of all time are vulnerable, the Dubs to win well the next day.

Also, the GAA ticket office must be in Mayo, 2-1 outnumbered Dublin, it was probably all the neutrals supporting Mayo I presume.

[JoG2]

Told you all a few times in the last few weeks the ref and GAA would try their best to get Mayo over the line. Nearly worked too. Some of you nearly got your wish that the Dubs were beaten.

However, it show that the greatest football team of all time are vulnerable, the Dubs to win well the next day.

Also, the GAA ticket office must be in Mayo, 2-1 outnumbered Dublin, it was probably all the neutrals supporting Mayo I presume.

I'd safely say you wouldn't know your arse from your elbow

[The Aristocrat]

Told you all a few times in the last few weeks the ref and GAA would try their best to get Mayo over the line. Nearly worked too. Some of you nearly got your wish that the Dubs were beaten.

However, it show that the greatest football team of all time are vulnerable, the Dubs to win well the next day.

Also, the GAA ticket office must be in Mayo, 2-1 outnumbered Dublin, it was probably all the neutrals supporting Mayo I presume.

I'd safely say you wouldn't know your arse from your elbow

Disagree. 

In fairness and my real opinion is , it was a good hard tough battle, a draw a fair result, not sure what will happen the next day, 2 weeks of listening and reading crap on social media, forums  and main stream, that's the downside.

[highorlow]

Not sure if it was on this site but I was a bit harsh on two of our lads and regret it now. Heat of the moment with drink on board. All the lads gave it 100%. Major tiredness in the 2nd half is always going to lead to mistakes, it was the same for both teams.

If our lads that played poorly the last day play to their full potential in the replay and the lads that played well play well again (most of the lads that played well nearly always play well so I'm confident on that front) then we will win the replay.

[criostlinn]

A lot of Dublin fans I knew said they werent bothered if they got a ticket or not. They reckoned the homecoming or what ever ye call it in the big shmoke was a far better buzz