All-Ireland Final, September 18th, 2016 - Dublin v Mayo

[muppet]

I really hate the way we automatically assume all decisions are against us.

Mayo Banter on Facebook is full of this crap, although Hill 16 isn't any better.

I have no problem with Deegan. He reffed the 2012 Final and had nothing to do with the result iirc.

[Mayoffs]

I can't agree with Jimmy McGuinness' idea that Mayo need to bring something new. Why? They got their tactical set up correct on Sunday and held Dublin to 9 points and yet he is advoscating trying something completely different by playing 2 or 3 big men inside and bombarding the Dublin full back line with long balls. The irony of Jimmy above all people actually advocating this approach is lost on him. They need to come with the exact same game plan only execute it better. I watched the match again and was surprised at just how many unforced errors were made by both sides and Seamus O'Shea give away the ball stupidly 3 times in a row which had negative consequences for Mayo each time. It's not like Mayo played to their full capabilities, both sides can get better given a dry sod on the day. In my opinion Jim Gavin has more questions to answer than Rochford particularly in the forward line with Brogan and Flynn. Will he stay loyal to the old foot soldiers like Brogan and Flynn who look battle weary or will he throw in Mannion/O'Gara or Andrews from the start who are fresher with something to prove.

The more I think about it the more I agree, take out the 2 freak og's and we won that game by 6 point's,

That's not how it works, if those don't go in the game is totally different and you might win by six or lose by six for that matter or anything in between, the whole game is different if one of those go in or neither of them do!

I think Dublin should be changing what they do far more than Mayo, another sub par performance and Mayo have them, I hope so anyway, for me, Mayo by a point or two.

What I'm trying to say is that Mayo had set-up to snuff out the Dublin attack and barring the goals it largely worked. With some improvement from 2 or 3 individuals, I think we have the beating of them,  fingers crossed

[Mayoffs]

I can't agree with Jimmy McGuinness' idea that Mayo need to bring something new. Why? They got their tactical set up correct on Sunday and held Dublin to 9 points and yet he is advoscating trying something completely different by playing 2 or 3 big men inside and bombarding the Dublin full back line with long balls. The irony of Jimmy above all people actually advocating this approach is lost on him. They need to come with the exact same game plan only execute it better. I watched the match again and was surprised at just how many unforced errors were made by both sides and Seamus O'Shea give away the ball stupidly 3 times in a row which had negative consequences for Mayo each time. It's not like Mayo played to their full capabilities, both sides can get better given a dry sod on the day. In my opinion Jim Gavin has more questions to answer than Rochford particularly in the forward line with Brogan and Flynn. Will he stay loyal to the old foot soldiers like Brogan and Flynn who look battle weary or will he throw in Mannion/O'Gara or Andrews from the start who are fresher with something to prove.

The more I think about it the more I agree, take out the 2 freak og's and we won that game by 6 point's, so our defensive system largely worked. If our defender's go in with the same level of intensity and keep the heads there's no reason to doubt they'll have the same success Saturday week. I'm still worried about Boyler though. ......
SOS had a good first half but nearly cost us the game in the second, he was out on his feet. My question is whether he's fit for 70 mins at this level?
JMcG's Donegal tactic is ok as a backup plan.  Move AOS to full, add Moran to the mix and have a couple of forwards in close to battle for the breaks. If anything it could create confusion, Dub defenders double marking could open up a lot of space around the 30. These are big ifs though and this approach might allow Dublin to get their running game going if they were to break out. If Aidan can distribute the ball quicker the next day, then we might get a better return.
I expect no big changes from Rochford really, maybe tighten up midfield a bit. Fenton and Andrews will need minding.

Don't agree... that was Mayo's best against probably Dublin's worst performance in 5 years!

If Mayo want to win the next day they have to try something different. Yes to a degree Mayo stopped Dublin but they played very poorly as well. You can't presume they will play like that the next day again!!

There's plenty of scope for improvement for Mayo as well as Dublin.

Exactly !

[westbound]

I can't agree with Jimmy McGuinness' idea that Mayo need to bring something new. Why? They got their tactical set up correct on Sunday and held Dublin to 9 points and yet he is advoscating trying something completely different by playing 2 or 3 big men inside and bombarding the Dublin full back line with long balls. The irony of Jimmy above all people actually advocating this approach is lost on him. They need to come with the exact same game plan only execute it better. I watched the match again and was surprised at just how many unforced errors were made by both sides and Seamus O'Shea give away the ball stupidly 3 times in a row which had negative consequences for Mayo each time. It's not like Mayo played to their full capabilities, both sides can get better given a dry sod on the day. In my opinion Jim Gavin has more questions to answer than Rochford particularly in the forward line with Brogan and Flynn. Will he stay loyal to the old foot soldiers like Brogan and Flynn who look battle weary or will he throw in Mannion/O'Gara or Andrews from the start who are fresher with something to prove.

The more I think about it the more I agree, take out the 2 freak og's and we won that game by 6 point's,

That's not how it works, if those don't go in the game is totally different and you might win by six or lose by six for that matter or anything in between, the whole game is different if one of those go in or neither of them do!

I think Dublin should be changing what they do far more than Mayo, another sub par performance and Mayo have them, I hope so anyway, for me, Mayo by a point or two.

What I'm trying to say is that Mayo had set-up to snuff out the Dublin attack and barring the goals it largely worked. With some improvement from 2 or 3 individuals, I think we have the beating of them,  fingers crossed

The mayo defense largely did well.

BUT,
on the subject of the two own goals.....on another day the own goals wouldn't go in, but don't forget that on another day bernard brogan sticks the ball in the net instead of towards Kevin McLoughlin and Dean Rock catches the ball and sticks it in the net instead of dropping it onto colm Boyle's toe!
So it's much too simplistic to say that if the own goals don't go in Mayo are six points better off at the end of the game.

Don't forget as well that Brian Fenton had a second goal chance (i.e. in addition to the first one that lead to the own goal).
So If that goes in Dublin are 3 points better off???
And also Clarke dropped a ball in the second half which could have resulted in another goal.

It's all hypothetical arguments.
What happened, happened. And will have no bearing on the next day.

[Farrandeelin]

I really hate the way we automatically assume all decisions are against us.

Mayo Banter on Facebook is full of this crap, although Hill 16 isn't any better.

I have no problem with Deegan. He reffed the 2012 Final and had nothing to do with the result iirc.

Thank God, I haven't been on nosebook since I went back to school. I can imagine the amount of Mayo statuses. And that Banter page is terrible.

[whitey]

I really hate the way we automatically assume all decisions are against us.

Mayo Banter on Facebook is full of this crap, although Hill 16 isn't any better.

I have no problem with Deegan. He reffed the 2012 Final and had nothing to do with the result iirc.

Boyle could have been red carded....that was a crazy tackle

All in all the good calls and bad calls evened themselves out last week

I don't think either side can feel aggrieved

I bet a few will see the line on Saturday week

[muppet]

I really hate the way we automatically assume all decisions are against us.

Mayo Banter on Facebook is full of this crap, although Hill 16 isn't any better.

I have no problem with Deegan. He reffed the 2012 Final and had nothing to do with the result iirc.

Boyle could have been red carded....that was a crazy tackle

All in all the good calls and bad calls evened themselves out last week

I don't think either side can feel aggrieved

I bet a few will see the line on Saturday week

Cillian was close to black as well. I know MDMA could have also gone but if we lost Cillian at that stage, it was over.

So I agree that things probably evened out. The 7 minutes helped as well!

[Jinxy]

In fairness to the ref re extra-time, he made it very clear to the players (and viewers at home) that the watch was stopped during breaks in play, particularly when the free-takers were taking the piss.

[iorras]

Yeah I think he did well over all. First half he was a bit fussy, second half he swallowed the whistle a bit but no harm.
Linesman should have caught Basticks pick off the ground before the full suplex from Evan Regan but I suppose it would be a bit much to expect a ref to "award" an all Ireland to Mayo from a pick off the ground.


All one eyedness aside, change the jerseys for a second and imagine the narrative.
Dublin gifted ye two goals and ye still couldn't win it???
3 points up with 68 minutes gone and ye still couldn't win it?
Ye went to sleep after half time, 5 points on, should have pushed on. Never win an all Ireland doing that.

The experts would be telling us, just saying......

[mrhardyannual]

Any analysis based on the two own goals is basically flawed. Dublin had carved open the Mayo defense twice and it is highly likely that they would score one or both given the same opportunities. Likewise Mayo showed tremendous character to come back from the two own goals. Had the goals been scored by Dublin players, would the reaction have been the same.? It's one thing to pick yourself up after two pieces of unprecedented bad luck and another to react to conceeding two easy scores early in a game.

The main point I take from the game was that Mayo were very much up for it, won the early exchanges and dominated their men. While much has been said about the quality of our defenders I thought that the early defending by our forwards was key. Johnny Cooper and Philly Mac were rarely seen in our half of the field and it is often their presence allows the Dub forwards to slip their men. We lacked support at times when attacking. Dillon has the knack of slipping into space within scoring range. I had thought that he might start but it would be difficult to drop any of last week's starters. DOC ran out of steam (has to be an ongoing illness/injury) after a day of running. Again I thought  the youngest O Shea might have been a better option than Barry Moran or Evan as he has the ball winning ability in front of goal as well as athleticism around the field.

Pundits are suggesting that we missed our chance. I think that might have been a fair call if we had ever headed Dublin in the second half. Given the conditions 15 points was a good score. Dublin were, and will be, rattled and no amount of talking will change that before Saturday week. Once again it will come down to 15 individual battles allied to the tactical nous on the sideline. So far I'd think it is advantage Mayo.  The suggestion is that Dublin will never be as poor again but if Mayo apply themselves in the same way Dublin may not be capable of lifting it. You would imagine changes in the Dublin forward line but how demoralising would that be on the players dropped and would they be capable of lifting themselves in the last quarter should Mayo have a lead? O Gara & Bastick are not game winners and should Mannion and Andrews start instead of Flynn and McMenamin their bench would look thin enough if Brogan and Rock misfire again. Dublin have now played two hugely intensive games in a short period and allied to the extra minutes regularly being played in both halves Mayo might well be the fresher side. The intensity with which Stephen Coen hit the field amazed me and he looked hungry for ball. Perhaps our bench is deeper than we thought.

All to play for. If we are in it with 60 mins gone I would expect us to push on and win. There is a growing confidence about the team. I wish the same could be said about some of our supporters who feel that having paid for a ticket they can hurl abuse at our own players for long periods only to scream for them as heroes when the result dictates. There were times when I wished I was in the sea of Blue behind the goal where you wouldn't mind what abuse was thrown. 10th time lucky , God willing.

[Jinxy]

That's true enough regarding the own goals.
They happened because Dublin got right in on top of David Clarke twice in quick succession.
On a dry day, Brogan probably buries his chance first time and Dean Rock gathers the pass from Connolly, sidesteps Boyle and scores.

[seafoid]

Any analysis based on the two own goals is basically flawed. Dublin had carved open the Mayo defense twice and it is highly likely that they would score one or both given the same opportunities. Likewise Mayo showed tremendous character to come back from the two own goals. Had the goals been scored by Dublin players, would the reaction have been the same.? It's one thing to pick yourself up after two pieces of unprecedented bad luck and another to react to conceeding two easy scores early in a game.

The main point I take from the game was that Mayo were very much up for it, won the early exchanges and dominated their men. While much has been said about the quality of our defenders I thought that the early defending by our forwards was key. Johnny Cooper and Philly Mac were rarely seen in our half of the field and it is often their presence allows the Dub forwards to slip their men. We lacked support at times when attacking. Dillon has the knack of slipping into space within scoring range. I had thought that he might start but it would be difficult to drop any of last week's starters. DOC ran out of steam (has to be an ongoing illness/injury) after a day of running. Again I thought  the youngest O Shea might have been a better option than Barry Moran or Evan as he has the ball winning ability in front of goal as well as athleticism around the field.

Pundits are suggesting that we missed our chance. I think that might have been a fair call if we had ever headed Dublin in the second half. Given the conditions 15 points was a good score. Dublin were, and will be, rattled and no amount of talking will change that before Saturday week. Once again it will come down to 15 individual battles allied to the tactical nous on the sideline. So far I'd think it is advantage Mayo.  The suggestion is that Dublin will never be as poor again but if Mayo apply themselves in the same way Dublin may not be capable of lifting it. You would imagine changes in the Dublin forward line but how demoralising would that be on the players dropped and would they be capable of lifting themselves in the last quarter should Mayo have a lead? O Gara & Bastick are not game winners and should Mannion and Andrews start instead of Flynn and McMenamin their bench would look thin enough if Brogan and Rock misfire again. Dublin have now played two hugely intensive games in a short period and allied to the extra minutes regularly being played in both halves Mayo might well be the fresher side. The intensity with which Stephen Coen hit the field amazed me and he looked hungry for ball. Perhaps our bench is deeper than we thought.

All to play for. If we are in it with 60 mins gone I would expect us to push on and win. There is a growing confidence about the team. I wish the same could be said about some of our supporters who feel that having paid for a ticket they can hurl abuse at our own players for long periods only to scream for them as heroes when the result dictates. There were times when I wished I was in the sea of Blue behind the goal where you wouldn't mind what abuse was thrown. 10th time lucky , God willing.

Michael Murphy took the wind out of Mayo in 2012 and they never caught up after that during the match
This team seems to be different. I think Rochford gets the tactical side. Huge difference when players can have confidence in that.
Dublin were not let play. That is very important. 
Over the last 5 years Mayo have been so close but this might be the year.
Dublin have been on the go for 2 full seasons as well. 

[highorlow]

Cillian was close to black as well. I know MDMA could have also gone but if we lost Cillian at that stage, it was over.

So I agree that things probably evened out. The 7 minutes helped as well!

The last (i think) free we got on Parsons was a soft one. I think he was losing possession of the ball anyhow. That free (i think) led to the equalizer.

[Tubberman]

Cillian was close to black as well. I know MDMA could have also gone but if we lost Cillian at that stage, it was over.

So I agree that things probably evened out. The 7 minutes helped as well!

The last (i think) free we got on Parsons was a soft one. I think he was losing possession of the ball anyhow. That free (i think) led to the equalizer.

Yes, that was very soft I thought. Having watch the match back, I thought the free against AOS in first half when he managed to get in behind the Dubs defence (put it in net after whistle went) was also harsh enough.
Thought the ref did well overall, couple of decisions both sides can question, but didn't affect the outcome.

[highorlow]

Thought the ref did well overall, couple of decisions both sides can question, but didn't affect the outcome.

Ya, they even out alright. The 50/50 Clarke v Rock (i think ball) went against Clarke and led to a tap over. Thought this was a soft one for the home side.

I must watch the game again tonight.