Dublin V Kerry 28/08/16 3.30pm RTE/SKY.

[larryin89]

Yes they are and im guessing its the only avenue they thought they could go after the league final.  It will be a very aggressive game i think .its 2016 the usual sledging will be too obvious and outdated i expect kerry to try something kinda new that might see us taking up a lot of bandwith or whatever the right term is for taking up internet space. 

[AZOffaly]

Voodoo dolls. They're going with voodoo dolls.

[larryin89]

Voodoo dolls. They're going with voodoo dolls.

Ahh theyve been doing that for years. Haha

[From the Bunker]

Their last successful Voodoo Doll!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Voodoo dolls. They're going with voodoo dolls.

Ahh theyve been doing that for years. Haha

You've sobered up, thank Christ!

Yours, a scummy animal.

[moysider]

Their last successful Voodoo Doll!

I'd love to ask him was it worth it?
Has he been given a game of any significance since?

[The Aristocrat]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-fear-is-killing-gaelic-football-kerry-are-the-new-donegal-34963257.html

[DuffleKing]

The obvious - maybe too obvious - Kerry option here is to go with Donaghy inside and to have a genuine direct ball threat.

[DuffleKing]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-fear-is-killing-gaelic-football-kerry-are-the-new-donegal-34963257.html

I should preface the following by saying that I deplore where the game has gone tactically but unfortunately there is a reality in the effectiveness of playing a massed defence and counter attacking football that cannot be practically ignored.

That article illustrates how inept Brolly is as a football analyst. What he lays out makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to anyone who seriously watches the game and even passingly understands the reality of space and numbers in Gaelic football.

The idea that Crossmaglen never play a sweeper or counter attack football also ridiculous in the last 5/6 years. It's actually an insult to a club and team that has reinvented itself many times in its dominant period to suggest they would be so tactically rigid and naïve - particularly against the best teams. The evidence to the contrary is many and varied.

There is so much just flat out wrong and badly informed about that article in terms of Dublin keeping the ball laterally in their half back line, Tipperary's game plan, Waterford's tactical approach, etc.

I guess, as usual, this is another pander to the poorly informed masses who may believe that there is some great and pure football solution to zonal and layered defences. I guess joe is also painting himself as some white knight champion of this mythical land. All hail....

[Zulu]

That's only partially true DuffleKing. The massed defence counter attacking tactic is no longer effective at winning games though it can still keep you in a game longer against a better team than a more conventional set up. The problem for football is in a knockout competition teams are looking to, in soccer parlance, nick it rather than win it. Stay within touching distance all game and hope to get into the lead with less than 10 minutes remaining and then hold the ball.

It's a truly awful mindset from the point of view of the spectator though you can understand why managers succumb to it. Anyone who says sport isn't about entertainment and is only about winning hasn't a clue what sport is. And anyone who thinks you have to get 15 men behind the ball to be effective defensively hasn't a clue about football.

[DuffleKing]

Unfortunately it is true that if you take two evenly matched teams - at any level - and one plays traditional football, kicking into their forward line and the other plays with numbers back to plug space and counter then there is only one winner.

No matter how how often it is said and in whatever flowery language, kicking the ball into a packed defence and not protecting the space in your own is suicide at any decent level of football.

Mayo are the latest realisation of this. They would have lost royally to Tyrone if they hadn't played a double sweeper and built their attacks more carefully than in the last five years.

[Zulu]

Absolutely. The real crime of defensive is that it gives very little option but to mirror it to a large degree. However, if you do then you have two teams stuck in a boring pointless game where neither team are getting any real advantage from their defensive structure.

Brolly says fear is strangling the game and in some ways he is right in that regard. I suspect many managers are setting up defensively because they are frightened of falling 4 or 5 points down at any stage. If that happens their opponents can then sit back and hit them on the counter as they themselves need to push on more. In a cup competition like the All Ireland, teams are unfortunately rewarded more for containing football rather than expressive football. Certainly in this more tactically aware age.

I'm only involved with underage for the past few years but for the life of me I can't see how leaving 4 forwards up would so weaken a team defensively that they couldn't keep the score down to a reasonable level. I don't recall too many games where 5 or 6 goals in conventional set ups. Is it really impossible to defend well if each player takes responsibility for their own man?

[AZOffaly]

I think what Kerry did v Donegal started the template to beating these counter attacking game plans. Make sure you cover your 6 defensive positions, and try to attack with 6 forwards and 2 midfielders. If the attack breaks down, your 6 defenders are in situ to try and stifle the counter attack. I actually think this year may be the beginning of the end for the overtly defensive systems. I actually have no aversion to the 'sweeper', as long as he is played as a launchpad for counter attacks.

[DuffleKing]

I think what Kerry did v Donegal started the template to beating these counter attacking game plans. Make sure you cover your 6 defensive positions, and try to attack with 6 forwards and 2 midfielders. If the attack breaks down, your 6 defenders are in situ to try and stifle the counter attack. I actually think this year may be the beginning of the end for the overtly defensive systems. I actually have no aversion to the 'sweeper', as long as he is played as a launchpad for counter attacks.

Gilroy's Dublin was first to do that to Donegal AZ - Kerry copied the template.

In reality though, it is the defenders who are the most effective counter attackers. Thoughts around the notion of 6 forwards and 2 midfielders are redundant.

Practically speaking, you will be playing with 2/3 extra defenders against most teams if defenders hold their line out positions.

Zulu - leaving 4 forwards up as you term it is misleading. Their direct markers will likely be gone at pace to counter attack and if they hang about in the forward line they'll simply be covered off by middle third players who have trekked back and are happy of the break. The next phase is comparatively fresh defenders counter attacking through your middle third players who have been chasing up and down the pitch for the last five minutes.

[AZOffaly]

Hi Duffle, I don't remember that Dublin game. I remember the Dublin Hara Kiri against Donegal when they all bombed on and the charge of the light brigade coming the other way destroyed them.

When I say leave your backs in position, I mean you cover those positions. Not necessarily that the individuals themselves stay there. If your wing back bombs on, then a midfielder or half forward just has to hold his area until he comes back. You should be able to manufacture a decent attack with 8 players, in fact committing more than that forward can end up crowding the space even more.