Championship structures - the never ending saga?

[Kickham csc]

Mr Duffy "it's not about the money"
The GAA community "its the GAA, its always about the money Mr Duffy"

I'm really disappointed, but I agree with you.

Revenues go down, let's change the structure.......which will benefit the clubs.....yea right

The answer is really easy, Have a ranking system - 1-32/34 (NY & London). League positions initially form ranking, which then establishes who you play in the prov. championship.

After prov. championships, re-rank, and then have a knockout championship for the All Ireland Championship.

Condense the season to 4/5 months and you have a solution.

Round robin round = Money grab. Will not improve intensity in matches.

[Esmarelda]

Mr Duffy "it's not about the money"
The GAA community "its the GAA, its always about the money Mr Duffy"

I'm really disappointed, but I agree with you.

Revenues go down, let's change the structure.......which will benefit the clubs.....yea right

The answer is really easy, Have a ranking system - 1-32/34 (NY & London). League positions initially form ranking, which then establishes who you play in the prov. championship.

After prov. championships, re-rank, and then have a knockout championship for the All Ireland Championship.

Condense the season to 4/5 months and you have a solution.

Round robin round = Money grab. Will not improve intensity in matches.

Did you read the full proposal?

The introduction outlines exactly where they were coming from, given the huge range of opinions that people have on the issue.

The round robin rewards teams that get to the last eight (like Tipp and Clare this year) with a guaranteed home fixture against one of the other eight, as well as a trip to Croker. Mickey Harte is a long term critic of the fact that provincial winners don't get a second chance. That is also fixed in this scenario.

As Duffy says, if it was all about money they wouldn't have scrapped replays (as far as they can) and there'd be no games at regional grounds in the quarter finals.

The worst thing about this is the PR disaster they created by only feeding the media the part about the round robin without pointing out the other benefits.

[An Watcher]

Obvious things such as no replays and games played on the same weekend would improve things but the round robin is billiards.  Bound to be dead rubbers in the third round of games.
At the same time it's a slight improvement for the club player so that's something

[Kickham csc]

Mr Duffy "it's not about the money"
The GAA community "its the GAA, its always about the money Mr Duffy"

I'm really disappointed, but I agree with you.

Revenues go down, let's change the structure.......which will benefit the clubs.....yea right

The answer is really easy, Have a ranking system - 1-32/34 (NY & London). League positions initially form ranking, which then establishes who you play in the prov. championship.

After prov. championships, re-rank, and then have a knockout championship for the All Ireland Championship.

Condense the season to 4/5 months and you have a solution.

Round robin round = Money grab. Will not improve intensity in matches.

Did you read the full proposal?

The introduction outlines exactly where they were coming from, given the huge range of opinions that people have on the issue.

The round robin rewards teams that get to the last eight (like Tipp and Clare this year) with a guaranteed home fixture against one of the other eight, as well as a trip to Croker. Mickey Harte is a long term critic of the fact that provincial winners don't get a second chance. That is also fixed in this scenario.

As Duffy says, if it was all about money they wouldn't have scrapped replays (as far as they can) and there'd be no games at regional grounds in the quarter finals.

The worst thing about this is the PR disaster they created by only feeding the media the part about the round robin without pointing out the other benefits.

How many replays per year 'v' additional games? Given that you can't plan for replays, this guarantees additional games = more money.

Trip to Croker... Makes Croker less of  a burden as a ongoing expense. Not implement for the good of the players..... more revenue

They have to make the games more exciting and meaningful.  Get rid of the back door playoffs. League, Prov championship and the All Ireland Championship. More condensed season, more time for clubs.

This proposal will not help the clubs, with the exception of playing the finals earlier in the year, but April to August is going to be county season. What will the clubs do during this time??

[The Trap]

Esmerelda, you must have been sitting on this proposal meeting!!!!! A bit like Eugene McGee and Jarlath Burns defending the black card against the general consensus......wait to see how Burns defends the mark when it turns out to be useless.......

Croke Park only care about revenue, they must be worried about falling attendances, about young men in various counties deciding the military training regime is not for them, the formation of a CPA to speak on behalf of the forgotten majority

If only Cake Curran could have put it more eloquently when he made the comparison to the demise of the Catholic Church!!!!!!

[Captain Obvious]

I see HQ have issued a new booklet on the proposed last 8 series.
They've included attendances at Championship games this century showing 2016  as the lowest overall since 2000, the last year before the Qualifiers.
Only for Mayowestros being in the Qualifiers this year the figures for the 25 games would have been embarrassing.
Around 55,000 at the other 21 games and this included u16s who had to pay this year, who weren't counted other years.

Doubling the admission price didn't help, but the irrelevancy of many of the games in the big picture isn't helping.

As for the new Big 8 thing...... totally opposed to it.

Today's "modern" football is the reason for the drop in attendance figures and regardless of what structure is put in place I don't expect counties to snap out of their current styles of play and make the games more attractive for public to watch or stop the attendances from dropping. Some of the best games played this year was in the U21 championship because sides weren't bogged down in systems and the players weren't in fear of making mistakes.

[Esmarelda]

Esmerelda, you must have been sitting on this proposal meeting!!!!! A bit like Eugene McGee and Jarlath Burns defending the black card against the general consensus......wait to see how Burns defends the mark when it turns out to be useless.......

Croke Park only care about revenue, they must be worried about falling attendances, about young men in various counties deciding the military training regime is not for them, the formation of a CPA to speak on behalf of the forgotten majority

If only Cake Curran could have put it more eloquently when he made the comparison to the demise of the Catholic Church!!!!!!

An astonishing post.

No, I just read the document with an open mind.

What's the general consensus on the black card?

Good to see you're on to Burns before the rule is even put in place. Don't give him an inch.

Is Croke Park responsible for the military training regimes?

The proposal was made before the CPA came about.

All you were missing was the term "fat cats" and you'd have had a full house.

[vallankumous]

Today's "modern" football is the reason for the drop in attendance figures and regardless of what structure is put in place I don't expect counties to snap out of their current styles of play and make the games more attractive for public to watch or stop the attendances from dropping. Some of the best games played this year was in the U21 championship because sides weren't bogged down in systems and the players weren't in fear of making mistakes.

Other than The Sunday Game panel have you any evidence to back this up?

The GAA like all other Irish bodies is subject to the changes in the economy and wider society.
It is also open to competition and the toos and fros of popularity. 10 years is a trend but it's not unusual and it's not based on the optics of the game.

I'd say the small impact of the European Soccer finals was a bigger impact than the optics of the current game.

[Esmarelda]

Mr Duffy "it's not about the money"
The GAA community "its the GAA, its always about the money Mr Duffy"

I'm really disappointed, but I agree with you.

Revenues go down, let's change the structure.......which will benefit the clubs.....yea right

The answer is really easy, Have a ranking system - 1-32/34 (NY & London). League positions initially form ranking, which then establishes who you play in the prov. championship.

After prov. championships, re-rank, and then have a knockout championship for the All Ireland Championship.

Condense the season to 4/5 months and you have a solution.

Round robin round = Money grab. Will not improve intensity in matches.

Did you read the full proposal?

The introduction outlines exactly where they were coming from, given the huge range of opinions that people have on the issue.

The round robin rewards teams that get to the last eight (like Tipp and Clare this year) with a guaranteed home fixture against one of the other eight, as well as a trip to Croker. Mickey Harte is a long term critic of the fact that provincial winners don't get a second chance. That is also fixed in this scenario.

As Duffy says, if it was all about money they wouldn't have scrapped replays (as far as they can) and there'd be no games at regional grounds in the quarter finals.

The worst thing about this is the PR disaster they created by only feeding the media the part about the round robin without pointing out the other benefits.

How many replays per year 'v' additional games? Given that you can't plan for replays, this guarantees additional games = more money.

Trip to Croker... Makes Croker less of  a burden as a ongoing expense. Not implement for the good of the players..... more revenue

They have to make the games more exciting and meaningful.  Get rid of the back door playoffs. League, Prov championship and the All Ireland Championship. More condensed season, more time for clubs.

This proposal will not help the clubs, with the exception of playing the finals earlier in the year, but April to August is going to be county season. What will the clubs do during this time??

What's wrong with more games if they're played over a more condensed period?

I don't understand your "Trip to Croker" line.

Is your next line an alternative suggestion? Could you clarify it please?

From the document itself - "Specifically, under this proposal the months of August, September and October will be available for all counties to complete their championships, with the exception of the four counties involved in the football semi-finals and the two involved in the hurling final. The two counties involved in the football final will have an extra three weeks available to them to complete their championships compared to the current situation, while the two hurling finalists will also have an extra threeweeks to do so."

April to August I assume they'll play league games without their county players. It's not supposed to a be a perfect solution but it improves things. Getting proposals through congress is so difficult that changes like this are the best way to do it (I realise that's what they're saying in the document before someone wants to point it out).

[Rossfan]

I see HQ have issued a new booklet on the proposed last 8 series.
They've included attendances at Championship games this century showing 2016  as the lowest overall since 2000, the last year before the Qualifiers.
Only for Mayowestros being in the Qualifiers this year the figures for the 25 games would have been embarrassing.
Around 55,000 at the other 21 games and this included u16s who had to pay this year, who weren't counted other years.

Doubling the admission price didn't help, but the irrelevancy of many of the games in the big picture isn't helping.

As for the new Big 8 thing...... totally opposed to it.

The "Big 8 thing" is only part of it. What about the rest?

Shortening the time taken to play the Provincials is one good proposal and is the first thing that needs doing even if nothing else changes.
Playing both Semis the same weekend is something I've suggested before, also needed for the hurley stuff.

Of course if we had Senior, Inter and Junior All Ireland Championships .....would free up another 3 or 4 weekends.
Not exactly revolutionary - Clubs and the Girleens have this all the time.

[Esmarelda]

I see HQ have issued a new booklet on the proposed last 8 series.
They've included attendances at Championship games this century showing 2016  as the lowest overall since 2000, the last year before the Qualifiers.
Only for Mayowestros being in the Qualifiers this year the figures for the 25 games would have been embarrassing.
Around 55,000 at the other 21 games and this included u16s who had to pay this year, who weren't counted other years.

Doubling the admission price didn't help, but the irrelevancy of many of the games in the big picture isn't helping.

As for the new Big 8 thing...... totally opposed to it.

The "Big 8 thing" is only part of it. What about the rest?

Shortening the time taken to play the Provincials is one good proposal and is the first thing that needs doing even if nothing else changes.
Playing both Semis the same weekend is something I've suggested before, also needed for the hurley stuff.

Of course if we had Senior, Inter and Junior All Ireland Championships .....would free up another 3 or 4 weekends.
Not exactly revolutionary - Clubs and the Girleens have this all the time.

True, but we know from the GPA and from this document that there is no appetite among players for a tiered-championship structure.

Sure they could have gone ahead and ignored that and how would that have went down.

I'm glad you at least acknowledge the other points. I never thought I'd see the season compressed.

[An Watcher]

I would be curious as to how Dublin fans would like to see the Leinster championship improved?
Similarly, are the Munster n connacht supporters happy with their lot?
Ulster is a good championship but I feel it could be shortened with games on Saturdays n sundays on the same weekend

[Esmarelda]

I would be curious as to how Dublin fans would like to see the Leinster championship improved?
Similarly, are the Munster n connacht supporters happy with their lot?
Ulster is a good championship but I feel it could be shortened with games on Saturdays n sundays on the same weekend

That's what they're doing here.

[Zulu]

Anyone attacking Duffy for his motivations hasn't a clue about the man or the reality of making any championship proposals. We have a ridiculous situation where a person can not only play with two different teams (his club and county), one of them competing in the biggest sports competition in Ireland but also two different sports (football and hurling) and can possibly play all four. And that's before we even get into U21 and adult representation being possible in all four as well as university representation.

Then throw in a sport that treats it's leagues with something just above contempt and has it's main competition as a cup based on unequal geographical groups with teams of wildly varying ability.

The bizarre thing is that many GAA supporters will complain about all these things at various stages but you'd be hard pressed to get anyone to agree to change things. Therefore, we get these halfway house proposals that can be easily pulled apart because they are fundamentally flawed by trying to keep the daft provincials, accommodate dual players at IC level and create a decent season for both clubs and counties in two sports within an 8 month period.

Until we take our heads out of our asses and develop a season that doesn't attempt to accommodate everyone then we will always have a daft system that really satisfies nobody in the long-term.

[Farrandeelin]

I see HQ have issued a new booklet on the proposed last 8 series.
They've included attendances at Championship games this century showing 2016  as the lowest overall since 2000, the last year before the Qualifiers.
Only for Mayowestros being in the Qualifiers this year the figures for the 25 games would have been embarrassing.
Around 55,000 at the other 21 games and this included u16s who had to pay this year, who weren't counted other years.

Doubling the admission price didn't help, but the irrelevancy of many of the games in the big picture isn't helping.

As for the new Big 8 thing...... totally opposed to it.

The championship is only half-dressed without Mayo.