Canavan rates the remaining teams

[omaghjoe]

Think wee Peter is being a wee bit modest about Tyrone there to be honest probably either playing things down or pandering to the national audience a wee bit

[From the Bunker]

Think wee Peter is being a wee bit modest about Tyrone there to be honest probably either playing things down or pandering to the national audience a wee bit

Yeah, Tyrone should be at Number One. But he has down played them to Number 2! 

[BennyHarp]

Think wee Peter is being a wee bit modest about Tyrone there to be honest probably either playing things down or pandering to the national audience a wee bit

Yeah, Tyrone should be at Number One. But he has down played them to Number 2! 

Clearly nobody has told Peter about Mayo being Tyrones bogey team!

[From the Bunker]

Think wee Peter is being a wee bit modest about Tyrone there to be honest probably either playing things down or pandering to the national audience a wee bit

Yeah, Tyrone should be at Number One. But he has down played them to Number 2! 

Clearly nobody has told Peter about Mayo being Tyrones bogey team!

Just like nobody told them in 2004! 

Anyway why are Galway not ranked as high as Tyrone? They both have a similar path to the Quarters?

[Lar Naparka]

Maybe I'm missing something here but two teams that couldn't manage to get out of Div2 in the league are catapulted into the top five in the land, according to Canavan anyway.

Tyrone kicked off their championship home by hammering Derry (who couldn't?)  and then made very heavy work of getting rid of Cavan, a game but limited side. I'm told the Ulster final was a thrilling contest, when Throne squeaked past Donegal and are now Dublin's chief rival for ultimate success this year.
From what I read about the game, Donegal could well have won it. The winning margin was only two points ands the gresult was always in doubt up to the last few minutes. Yet, Tyrone are listed at #2,.whereas Donegal are listed behind Kerry and Galway.
Galway? 
The heron-chokers beat a misfiring Mayo side, who were looking ahead to Croker in August. During their fiver year stint as Connacht champions, Mayo made the same mistake against Roscommon and Sligo and was damn lucky to come out on top in each case. Galway then beat Roscommon, the Derry of Connacht football, at the second attempt and are now rated at #4 by Canavan.
According to him, "they have shown sustained improvement this summer and with their strong tradition, returning to Croke Park could get more out of the players."
Indeed it could but there is a good chance that they could go belly-up with nerves. Of course he could be right but I'd rate my chances of getting to the moon on me bike as better than this happening. 

[Redhand Santa]

So canavan shouldn't rate Tyrone ahead of Mayo and Kerry because they haven't beat them. Galway did knock Mayo out of the championship but that result should be ignored? Strange logic. The man is entitled to his opinion.

Both Mayo and Kerry have a lot of miles on the clock whereas Tyrone have quite a fresh team and a panel filled with underage all Ireland medals. I'm not saying they'll win the all Ireland but they've clearly improved from last year were they ran an aging Kerry team close so his logic isn't that crazy.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Maybe I'm missing something here ...

Perhaps you should have stopped there, and saved yourself the embarrassment of what followed! 

It says something when some of your buachaillí are reaching right back to 2004 to validate their case: so, after beating the AI Champs in 2004 what did Mayo actually do? Perennially?

We're unbeaten in 2016, and that might, just might, come a cropper next weekend, but we'll be value for our record in the meantime, and fear no one, no fecking one!

[BennyHarp]

Maybe I'm missing something here but two teams that couldn't manage to get out of Div2 in the league are catapulted into the top five in the land, according to Canavan anyway.

Tyrone kicked off their championship home by hammering Derry (who couldn't?)  and then made very heavy work of getting rid of Cavan, a game but limited side. I'm told the Ulster final was a thrilling contest, when Throne squeaked past Donegal and are now Dublin's chief rival for ultimate success this year.
From what I read about the game, Donegal could well have won it. The winning margin was only two points ands the gresult was always in doubt up to the last few minutes. Yet, Tyrone are listed at #2,.whereas Donegal are listed behind Kerry and Galway.
Galway? 
The heron-chokers beat a misfiring Mayo side, who were looking ahead to Croker in August. During their fiver year stint as Connacht champions, Mayo made the same mistake against Roscommon and Sligo and was damn lucky to come out on top in each case. Galway then beat Roscommon, the Derry of Connacht football, at the second attempt and are now rated at #4 by Canavan.
According to him, "they have shown sustained improvement this summer and with their strong tradition, returning to Croke Park could get more out of the players."
Indeed it could but there is a good chance that they could go belly-up with nerves. Of course he could be right but I'd rate my chances of getting to the moon on me bike as better than this happening.

Ok ok, Mayo should be number 1....sheesh!!! By the way, Tyrone were also not far off a place in last years all Ireland final you know, and haven't lost a game since. The general concensus given this years form is that Tyrone have improved and mayo have gone back a bit so it's hardly the biggest surprise that Tyronr are rated in the top 3. Also, you don't really expect to lose in your province, stutter past Fermanagh and maintain a rating of the best team in the world do you?

[Lar Naparka]

Maybe I'm missing something here but two teams that couldn't manage to get out of Div2 in the league are catapulted into the top five in the land, according to Canavan anyway.

Tyrone kicked off their championship home by hammering Derry (who couldn't?)  and then made very heavy work of getting rid of Cavan, a game but limited side. I'm told the Ulster final was a thrilling contest, when Throne squeaked past Donegal and are now Dublin's chief rival for ultimate success this year.
From what I read about the game, Donegal could well have won it. The winning margin was only two points ands the gresult was always in doubt up to the last few minutes. Yet, Tyrone are listed at #2,.whereas Donegal are listed behind Kerry and Galway.
Galway? 
The heron-chokers beat a misfiring Mayo side, who were looking ahead to Croker in August. During their fiver year stint as Connacht champions, Mayo made the same mistake against Roscommon and Sligo and was damn lucky to come out on top in each case. Galway then beat Roscommon, the Derry of Connacht football, at the second attempt and are now rated at #4 by Canavan.
According to him, "they have shown sustained improvement this summer and with their strong tradition, returning to Croke Park could get more out of the players."
Indeed it could but there is a good chance that they could go belly-up with nerves. Of course he could be right but I'd rate my chances of getting to the moon on me bike as better than this happening.

Ok ok, Mayo should be number 1....sheesh!!! By the way, Tyrone were also not far off a place in last years all Ireland final you know, and haven't lost a game since. The general concensus given this years form is that Tyrone have improved and mayo have gone back a bit so it's hardly the biggest surprise that Tyronr are rated in the top 3. Also, you don't really expect to lose in your province, stutter past Fermanagh and maintain a rating of the best team in the world do you?

Now, now, play the ball not the man!
I did not mention Mayo at any time or rate them in any way. I was merely referring to the fact that two Div2 teams rated so highly in Canavan's opinion and I gave my reasons why. And shag the "general consensus!"
The general consensus was that Mayo would bate Galway and that Cork would ate Tipp and look where it would get you if you followed suit.
Mayo may or may not have gone back a bit but that had no bearing on what I had to say.

[Lar Naparka]

Maybe I'm missing something here ...

Perhaps you should have stopped there, and saved yourself the embarrassment of what followed! 

It says something when some of your buachaillí are reaching right back to 2004 to validate their case: so, after beating the AI Champs in 2004 what did Mayo actually do? Perennially?

We're unbeaten in 2016, and that might, just might, come a cropper next weekend, but we'll be value for our record in the meantime, and fear no one, no fecking one!

Same as I said to Benny, play the ball, not the man. I don't give a fiddlestick if any of our buachaillí went back to Fionn  Mac Chumaill; I was merely reacting to Canavan's decision to rate two ex-Div 2 teams so highly given that neither bate anyone of note so far. Maybe Canavan will be proved right and maybe I'd need to start checking my bike's brakes.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Maybe I'm missing something here ...

Perhaps you should have stopped there, and saved yourself the embarrassment of what followed! 

It says something when some of your buachaillí are reaching right back to 2004 to validate their case: so, after beating the AI Champs in 2004 what did Mayo actually do? Perennially?

We're unbeaten in 2016, and that might, just might, come a cropper next weekend, but we'll be value for our record in the meantime, and fear no one, no fecking one!

Same as I said to Benny, play the ball, not the man. I don't give a fiddlestick if any of our buachaillí went back to Fionn  Mac Chumaill; I was merely reacting to Canavan's decision to rate two ex-Div 2 teams so highly given that neither bate anyone of note so far. Maybe Canavan will be proved right and maybe I'd need to start checking my bike's brakes.

I think Canavan was merely ranking as per the likelihood of playing ball on the 3rd weekend in September, and in that regard he's only echoing what the bookies reckon (and yes, consensus can be an ass all too often) -- Kerry (most probably) have Dublin to thwart at the semi stage and that's not looking promising right now, despite the Kingdom's illustrious record.

Donegal will be enamoured of your "no one of note" I'm sure. And despite Galway's division they did put a certain Division I team away.

Keep 'er lit!

[BennyHarp]

Maybe I'm missing something here but two teams that couldn't manage to get out of Div2 in the league are catapulted into the top five in the land, according to Canavan anyway.

Tyrone kicked off their championship home by hammering Derry (who couldn't?)  and then made very heavy work of getting rid of Cavan, a game but limited side. I'm told the Ulster final was a thrilling contest, when Throne squeaked past Donegal and are now Dublin's chief rival for ultimate success this year.
From what I read about the game, Donegal could well have won it. The winning margin was only two points ands the gresult was always in doubt up to the last few minutes. Yet, Tyrone are listed at #2,.whereas Donegal are listed behind Kerry and Galway.
Galway? 
The heron-chokers beat a misfiring Mayo side, who were looking ahead to Croker in August. During their fiver year stint as Connacht champions, Mayo made the same mistake against Roscommon and Sligo and was damn lucky to come out on top in each case. Galway then beat Roscommon, the Derry of Connacht football, at the second attempt and are now rated at #4 by Canavan.
According to him, "they have shown sustained improvement this summer and with their strong tradition, returning to Croke Park could get more out of the players."
Indeed it could but there is a good chance that they could go belly-up with nerves. Of course he could be right but I'd rate my chances of getting to the moon on me bike as better than this happening.

Ok ok, Mayo should be number 1....sheesh!!! By the way, Tyrone were also not far off a place in last years all Ireland final you know, and haven't lost a game since. The general concensus given this years form is that Tyrone have improved and mayo have gone back a bit so it's hardly the biggest surprise that Tyronr are rated in the top 3. Also, you don't really expect to lose in your province, stutter past Fermanagh and maintain a rating of the best team in the world do you?

Now, now, play the ball not the man!
I did not mention Mayo at any time or rate them in any way. I was merely referring to the fact that two Div2 teams rated so highly in Canavan's opinion and I gave my reasons why. And shag the "general consensus!"
The general consensus was that Mayo would bate Galway and that Cork would ate Tipp and look where it would get you if you followed suit.
Mayo may or may not have gone back a bit but that had no bearing on what I had to say.

The 'general consensus' was based on the fact that Mayo didn't beat Galway and Tyrone did beat the Div 1 team that was supposed to prove our worthiness. What would your rankings be then, Lar? As things stand right now, based on the likelihood to be in Croker on the 3rd Sunday in September, I think I'd go;
1.Dublin - no arguments
2. Tyrone - avoid Dubs until final
3. Kerry - unlikely to beat Dubs in semi so below Tyrone who avoid them.
4. Galway - relatively easy route to semi
5. Mayo - still a bit of work to do to get back into form
6. Donegal - most likely have to go via Dublin to get to semi final
7. Cork - the bottom 4 are a toss of the coin in my view with Westmeath probably bottom!
8. Clare
9. Tipp
10. Westmeath

[GalwayBayBoy]

Maybe I'm missing something here but two teams that couldn't manage to get out of Div2 in the league are catapulted into the top five in the land, according to Canavan anyway.

Tyrone kicked off their championship home by hammering Derry (who couldn't?)  and then made very heavy work of getting rid of Cavan, a game but limited side. I'm told the Ulster final was a thrilling contest, when Throne squeaked past Donegal and are now Dublin's chief rival for ultimate success this year.
From what I read about the game, Donegal could well have won it. The winning margin was only two points ands the gresult was always in doubt up to the last few minutes. Yet, Tyrone are listed at #2,.whereas Donegal are listed behind Kerry and Galway.
Galway? 
The heron-chokers beat a misfiring Mayo side, who were looking ahead to Croker in August. During their fiver year stint as Connacht champions, Mayo made the same mistake against Roscommon and Sligo and was damn lucky to come out on top in each case. Galway then beat Roscommon, the Derry of Connacht football, at the second attempt and are now rated at #4 by Canavan.
According to him, "they have shown sustained improvement this summer and with their strong tradition, returning to Croke Park could get more out of the players."
Indeed it could but there is a good chance that they could go belly-up with nerves. Of course he could be right but I'd rate my chances of getting to the moon on me bike as better than this happening.

I think it's fairly obvious that he is taking the fixtures into account as well. Galway only have Tipp to play to reach an All-Ireland semi-final. Mayo have Westmeath and possibly Tyrone/Dublin. Donegal have to beat Cork and then Dublin. Not to mention I don't think league position matters a feck now. Westmeath were relegated to division 4 but reached a Leinster final and could be in the quarter-finals if they win one more game.

Although there seems already seems to be revisionism taking place over Galway's results. We've gone from Mayo playing poorly to now them not even trying because they were looking towards August. Roscommon were a good side until they got hammered in the Connacht final replay and subsequently lost to Clare 6 days later. Now they were apparently useless all along.

[Lar Naparka]

Maybe I'm missing something here but two teams that couldn't manage to get out of Div2 in the league are catapulted into the top five in the land, according to Canavan anyway.

Tyrone kicked off their championship home by hammering Derry (who couldn't?)  and then made very heavy work of getting rid of Cavan, a game but limited side. I'm told the Ulster final was a thrilling contest, when Throne squeaked past Donegal and are now Dublin's chief rival for ultimate success this year.
From what I read about the game, Donegal could well have won it. The winning margin was only two points ands the gresult was always in doubt up to the last few minutes. Yet, Tyrone are listed at #2,.whereas Donegal are listed behind Kerry and Galway.
Galway? 
The heron-chokers beat a misfiring Mayo side, who were looking ahead to Croker in August. During their fiver year stint as Connacht champions, Mayo made the same mistake against Roscommon and Sligo and was damn lucky to come out on top in each case. Galway then beat Roscommon, the Derry of Connacht football, at the second attempt and are now rated at #4 by Canavan.
According to him, "they have shown sustained improvement this summer and with their strong tradition, returning to Croke Park could get more out of the players."
Indeed it could but there is a good chance that they could go belly-up with nerves. Of course he could be right but I'd rate my chances of getting to the moon on me bike as better than this happening.

I think it's fairly obvious that he is taking the fixtures into account as well. Galway only have Tipp to play to reach an All-Ireland semi-final. Mayo have Westmeath and possibly Tyrone/Dublin. Donegal have to beat Cork and then Dublin. Not to mention I don't think league position matters a feck now. Westmeath were relegated to division 4 but reached a Leinster final and could be in the quarter-finals if they win one more game.

Although there seems already seems to be revisionism taking place over Galway's results. We've gone from Mayo playing poorly to now them not even trying because they were looking towards August. Roscommon were a good side until they got hammered in the Connacht final replay and subsequently lost to Clare 6 days later. Now they were apparently useless all along.

That's quite possible alright but I never brought his opinion of Mayo into this argument.
I'm going by what each of those teams who played div 2 football before the championships began and what they have done to date in the present championships to date. Kevin Walsh did say that he had major problems trying to get his preferred 15 together and he did field five championship debutantes.
Roscommon did quite well in the early stages of the league but were caught out later on when the sod was drier and the tempo speeded up in the latter stages. Good is a relative term and it can mean a lot but I don't think that beating them at the second attempt can be taken as an indicator that Galway are a serious contender for All-Ireland glory. Maybe they are btw, but they have done nothing so far to suggest that Canavan is right.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

I'd love to know what exactly Tyrone have done to prove they are a better team than Mayo or Kerry . . . Nothing??? Oh yeah alright then!!!

You don't need to prove these things. You might never meet them. It's perception. There's nothing to prove that Derry are better than Greenlough Reserves.

Proof is maybe too strong a word but surely there is some basis for saying some team is better than another or some reasoning... Kerry were in an AIF last year, are a solid division 1 team yet Canavan hails Tyrone as better than them... Why??

Look I'm not saying Tyrone aren't a good team but why are they being considered as the next best team to Dublin? Personally I think they are 3rd but are some ways behind Dublin and Kerry!

Kerry narrowly beat Tyrone in the semi-final last year and I don't think anybody can deny Tyrone have improved since then, the question is really have they improved enough. Even if you don't think they have  (still not convinced myself), it's hardly controversial to suggest that  a side who lost narrowly to another a year before might be better than them now.

Lot being made of Tyrone being in Division 2 as well.  They were one place behind "solid Division 1 team" Kerry in Division 1, a team they drew with in the final game. They lost the same number of games as as the side who finished 3rd. Very small margins  indeed.

Ultimately thede rankings mean f**k all, but clearly Tyrone must have something that a filler like this gets some people worked up.