Who can stop Kerry?

[Rossfan]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.

[From the Bunker]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

The problem is money rules! The Munster championship is set-up to have a Cork/Kerry Munster final. That is where the money is. Cork and Kerry might not travel in their droves to Croker, but they will travel to large numbers to Killarney or pairc ui chaoimh when they are playing each other. Tipperary and Clare have poor following in football. The Munster final would have been seen as a huge loss to without Cork in it! You see provincial games still offer the bigger crowds at games. Back-door or open draw, would not come near.

Kerry
Armagh
Offaly
London

Can you imagine the poor crowds at some of the games? To make things interesting you'd have to make finishing third as a backdoor route to cut down on dead rubber games in the final round of games.

[Zulu]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.

Don't think those figures prove much to be fair. Anyway the debate isn't provincials v qualifiers it's about the format overall and I just see how you can have a fair sensible format if it's based on 4 groups of differing size (6, 7, 9 and 11) who remain the same year in year out where the same one or two teams will dominate in each group for 80-90% of the time.

There were 15,000 at the Connacht replay between two counties who hadn't won a Connacht final for years and we have Galway posters readily admitting the Connacht win has been seriously undermined by the Tipp result. Even the Munster hurling championship, the poster boy for the provincials, has seen very poor crowds so it's clear their day is up. The only question is how long will keep a daft competition format just so we can retain them?

[Rossfan]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.

Don't think those figures prove much to be fair.

About €9m to be found somewhere else.

[Zulu]

Yes, but I don't think it proves one is working and the other is not - neither are working IMO. I actually believe a proper competition format would generate multiple millions more through TV, advertising, attendances and sponsorship.

[BennyHarp]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.

Don't think those figures prove much to be fair.

About €9m to be found somewhere else.

Every team would have at least 4 games. Currently a significant number of counties only have 2. Surely this would offset any substantial loss. Some big games such as Tyrone v Kerry in Omagh or Dublin v Derry at Celtic park would attract big crowds. If teams get on a bit of a run, attendances will improve. Yes, there'll be a few dead rubbers but there will also be a lot of potential big games at regional grounds which could be very attractive!

[Syferus]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.

Don't think those figures prove much to be fair. Anyway the debate isn't provincials v qualifiers it's about the format overall and I just see how you can have a fair sensible format if it's based on 4 groups of differing size (6, 7, 9 and 11) who remain the same year in year out where the same one or two teams will dominate in each group for 80-90% of the time.

There were 15,000 at the Connacht replay between two counties who hadn't won a Connacht final for years and we have Galway posters readily admitting the Connacht win has been seriously undermined by the Tipp result. Even the Munster hurling championship, the poster boy for the provincials, has seen very poor crowds so it's clear their day is up. The only question is how long will keep a daft competition format just so we can retain them?

I see the one man band is still on the go.

[Zulu]

One man band, are you having a laugh? Colm Collins, manager of Clare, wants them scrapped and Darren O'Sullivan says he prefers the league, not to mention all the posters questioning the format here and on other GAA boards or the numerous newspaper articles and radio TV debates on the fact the current format doesn't work.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

[joemamas]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.

Don't think those figures prove much to be fair. Anyway the debate isn't provincials v qualifiers it's about the format overall and I just see how you can have a fair sensible format if it's based on 4 groups of differing size (6, 7, 9 and 11) who remain the same year in year out where the same one or two teams will dominate in each group for 80-90% of the time.

There were 15,000 at the Connacht replay between two counties who hadn't won a Connacht final for years and we have Galway posters readily admitting the Connacht win has been seriously undermined by the Tipp result. Even the Munster hurling championship, the poster boy for the provincials, has seen very poor crowds so it's clear their day is up. The only question is how long will keep a daft competition format just so we can retain them?

I see the one man band is still on the go.

Could you take your head out of the sand. System is broken.Needs to be tweaked big time.

[Rossfan]

I'm not claiming the present system is perfect, far from it but I don't see a series of group games replacing the at least €9m the Provincials generate.
Also the local rivalries, tradition etc.
For every possible Tyrone v Kerry you'll have a lot of bald men fighting over combs games. Yet the bald men want to be in the "Best hair" competition .
Maybe play Provincials on round robin basis and have a separate open draw all Ireland with Provincial Champions seeded.
No matter what system about 20 teams won't have a hope anyway.

[Owenmoresider]

I'm not claiming the present system is perfect, far from it but I don't see a series of group games replacing the at least €9m the Provincials generate.
Also the local rivalries, tradition etc.
For every possible Tyrone v Kerry you'll have a lot of bald men fighting over combs games. Yet the bald men want to be in the "Best hair" competition .
Maybe play Provincials on round robin basis and have a separate open draw all Ireland with Provincial Champions seeded.
No matter what system about 20 teams won't have a hope anyway.

Wouldn't object to that idea, run them off in May and June and go from there. Not against altering the system but don't want to see the provincial championships lost to history in the process.

[Zulu]

I'm not claiming the present system is perfect, far from it but I don't see a series of group games replacing the at least €9m the Provincials generate.
Also the local rivalries, tradition etc.
For every possible Tyrone v Kerry you'll have a lot of bald men fighting over combs games. Yet the bald men want to be in the "Best hair" competition .
Maybe play Provincials on round robin basis and have a separate open draw all Ireland with Provincial Champions seeded.
No matter what system about 20 teams won't have a hope anyway.

Wouldn't object to that idea, run them off in May and June and go from there. Not against altering the system but don't want to see the provincial championships lost to history in the process.

I think we have to get rid of the provincials but perhaps they can be played on their own. They can't, however, be linked to the All Ireland IMO. I've suggested seeding teams from the league which I think solves most problems but I've seen other formats that look good too.

I'd not be in favour of groups as I think it's pointless putting Leitrim in with a Dublin or Kerry but I don't think the provincials are necessary to ensure we get local rivalries and a lot more people will go to see Dublin v Tyrone or Mayo v Kerry than Antrim v Derry or Galway v Sligo for example so I think 9 million euros could be easily replaced and improved on.

The system isn't just about money or competitive games it's also about promotion. We currently have one that has Dublin footballers and Kilkenny hurlers on TV in important games against teams that can genuinely compete with them about 6 times a year between the two! Christ, even if you went to every game they played you'd only see them play genuine opponents maybe 6 times a year each. What sport would have two of it's best ever teams on TV 3 times a year in important games??

And all the while Waterford and Carlow etc. get a few games that they might win on shite pitches in February and then get one or two (largely) unwinnable games in the summer before packing in IC football for the bones of 7 months. That's a format only an anti-GAA man could support but for some reason many genuine GAA people still do.

[Lar Naparka]

I'm not claiming the present system is perfect, far from it but I don't see a series of group games replacing the at least €9m the Provincials generate.
Also the local rivalries, tradition etc.
For every possible Tyrone v Kerry you'll have a lot of bald men fighting over combs games. Yet the bald men want to be in the "Best hair" competition .
Maybe play Provincials on round robin basis and have a separate open draw all Ireland with Provincial Champions seeded.
No matter what system about 20 teams won't have a hope anyway.

Wouldn't object to that idea, run them off in May and June and go from there. Not against altering the system but don't want to see the provincial championships lost to history in the process.

I think we have to get rid of the provincials but perhaps they can be played on their own. They can't, however, be linked to the All Ireland IMO. I've suggested seeding teams from the league which I think solves most problems but I've seen other formats that look good too.

I'd not be in favour of groups as I think it's pointless putting Leitrim in with a Dublin or Kerry but I don't think the provincials are necessary to ensure we get local rivalries and a lot more people will go to see Dublin v Tyrone or Mayo v Kerry than Antrim v Derry or Galway v Sligo for example so I think 9 million euros could be easily replaced and improved on.

The system isn't just about money or competitive games it's also about promotion. We currently have one that has Dublin footballers and Kilkenny hurlers on TV in important games against teams that can genuinely compete with them about 6 times a year between the two! Christ, even if you went to every game they played you'd only see them play genuine opponents maybe 6 times a year each. What sport would have two of it's best ever teams on TV 3 times a year in important games??

And all the while Waterford and Carlow etc. get a few games that they might win on shite pitches in February and then get one or two (largely) unwinnable games in the summer before packing in IC football for the bones of 7 months. That's a format only an anti-GAA man could support but for some reason many genuine GAA people still do.

I think that the main opposition to a reform of the provincial system comes from the hurling confraternity as the  snobbish "elite" would  buck at any notion to amend/alter/change the present system in any way.
Ask any Tipp or Cork hurling fan if he'd like to see the end of the Munster Final as we know it and you'll get your answer into words, that last of them being "off!"
For some reason, Wexford supporters come across, to me at any rate, as the most intransigent bunch of the lot. I don't recall ever coming across a hurling supporter from any of the so-called traditional counties who said he or she was in favour of a change in the present format.
Granted, there well be be some but I just haven't met one yet.

[moysider]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.

Don't think those figures prove much to be fair.

About €9m to be found somewhere else.

Every team would have at least 4 games. Currently a significant number of counties only have 2. Surely this would offset any substantial loss. Some big games such as Tyrone v Kerry in Omagh or Dublin v Derry at Celtic park would attract big crowds. If teams get on a bit of a run, attendances will improve. Yes, there'll be a few dead rubbers but there will also be a lot of potential big games at regional grounds which could be very attractive!

Kerry play Tyrone a bit already in Omagh. How many Kerry fans attend these league games? Dressing it up as some kind of championship still wont get Kerry fans to travel either.

last weekend's games in CP were decent pairings between teams going into the business end of things. But f**k all bothered to actually go to the games. And they wouldn t have bothered if the games were anywhere else either. CP relatively accessible from most parts of the country. Omagh and Killarney are not.

[BennyHarp]

On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.

The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.

If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.

Don't think those figures prove much to be fair.

About €9m to be found somewhere else.

Every team would have at least 4 games. Currently a significant number of counties only have 2. Surely this would offset any substantial loss. Some big games such as Tyrone v Kerry in Omagh or Dublin v Derry at Celtic park would attract big crowds. If teams get on a bit of a run, attendances will improve. Yes, there'll be a few dead rubbers but there will also be a lot of potential big games at regional grounds which could be very attractive!

Kerry play Tyrone a bit already in Omagh. How many Kerry fans attend these league games? Dressing it up as some kind of championship still wont get Kerry fans to travel either.

last weekend's games in CP were decent pairings between teams going into the business end of things. But f**k all bothered to actually go to the games. And they wouldn t have bothered if the games were anywhere else either. CP relatively accessible from most parts of the country. Omagh and Killarney are not.

What was the crowd like when Tyrone played Kerry in Killarney a few years ago in the championship?
Edit: over 24,000 - build it and they will come!