Laois v Armagh

[omagh_gael]

Who are the players opting out? I'm not sticking the knife in here but I'm sure most counties could rhyme off almost half a dozen players who should be on the panel but aren't for one reason or another. From the outside looking in there appears to be a half arsed approach from the Cross contingent ever since Big Joe hit the road. This isn't just a McGeeney issue, I remember these discussions with McDonnell, O'Rourke and Grimley.

[BennyCake]

Oisin, Francie, McEntees, Hearty, Aaron K were all capable of handling county football. Cross' current players aren't. Just because Cross are successful at Ulster/AI now don't mean they're capable of the step up to county level. Lots of them have been tried and they obviously weren't good enough - McKeown, McKenna, S Kernan, Cunningham, Hughes, Hanratty etc.

So stop going on about Cross. Let's look elsewhere.

[LCohen]

That was abysmal but not unexpected. Brolly has accused McGeeney of not knowing what is doing and yesterday was yet more proof that Brolly is right (on this one).


We were told at the outset that McGeeney would leave no stone unturned to make Armagh a success. He has to make do with limited playing resources and yesterday's sub list shows just how limited that is especially in attack.


The lack of quality in players has allowed a band of supporters and officials to hide behind a "we just don't have the players" defence to justify whatever new level we fall to (I fully accept that as a county we have been at lower levels in the past but not with this group of players). This fails to even engage with the fact that it is possible to make a reasonable assessment of what level of performance the players produced in the county are capable of achieving and then whether they have actually achieved it.


On this measure the current management are failing and we should not tolerate the lies that will be peddled to justify them staying on.


Once again we seem to be totally astounded that a team would set up defensively. We had no clue how to combat this. Again we solo the ball through the open spaces in the middle of the park. This is the only way of moving the ball forward that allows the extra defenders to get back before the ball. We know it doesn't work and yet we do it in every game. When an individual player does this it is their fault. When player after player does it routinely in game after game then definitively it is management's fault. Time to go. There is no plan, no progress and no clue.


A team that allows the defence to get back is forced to move the ball laterally in front of the blanket defence until they work a man in space to hit it from distance. Laois were absolutely delighted to find out that the plan we had worked on was for Aaron Findon to be the man that got into the space. Again no plan, no progress and no clue.


Our variation on plan A was to keep the inside forwards in front of the goal within the width of the posts and then to sprint into the very corners to collect the ball. We gave up possession and frees with this tactic but got no scores.  Again no plan, no progress and no clue.


We named one inside forward. Bad enough but to then to have him playing big chunks of the game behind the half forward line was just desperation. Some form of tactical lottery. Spin the wheel and see what comes up. No plan, no progress and no clue


We were told that McGeeney would have us running through walls to get fit. Team are slow and powder puff in the challenge. They are also ineffectual in the tackle. Minimal turnovers but plenty of frees. All bluster but no precision. What does Dinny Hollywood do and is it working? Who is he accountable to and how is he being measured? Maybe the county board will tell us on the Sunday Game after a hurling match?


Laois looked poor. They have dispatched us (twice) and Wicklow this season. We are well capable of beating Laois but we are punching below our weight by a degree that cannot be justified or explained away.


With the clock running down we had a free right in front of McGeeney. We needed a goal and nothing else would do. Dropping the ball in on the square is a low probability play but the only option we had. Why Soupy put the ball on the ground and took his time about lining up an attempt at a point is any body's guess but why his manager stood behind him and allowed the clock to be wasted on a low probability (he missed) and totally useless point is completely unforgivable. He showed a complete sense of helplessness and resignation. Maybe an apt note for McGeeney's season to end on.

[skeog]

its been downhill since morgans fuels departed with the brown envelopes

[DuffleKing]

Of - Whatever about the rest of that stuff I'd point out a couple of glaring errors in your observations. 1, they kicked the ball constantly into the forward line yesterday - to a fault in fact as they kicked too much ball away into areas where Laois had extra numbers. I assume you know that if a team keeps players back while they attack then they don't need to work back to cover and sweep.

Secondly, there were two minutes on the clock and two points down when soupy got that scoreable free. How would anyone's instinct be to drop it in and look for a goal in that scenario? Beggars belief to think anyone who watches football regularly would advocate that.

If you're making other points worth serious consideration, making those and other daft points with such certainly means that common sense observers will just give you a fool's pass.

[seafoid]

Surely this and relegation to d3 are rock bottom for Armagh

[LCohen]

Of - Whatever about the rest of that stuff I'd point out a couple of glaring errors in your observations. 1, they kicked the ball constantly into the forward line yesterday - to a fault in fact as they kicked too much ball away into areas where Laois had extra numbers. I assume you know that if a team keeps players back while they attack then they don't need to work back to cover and sweep.

Secondly, there were two minutes on the clock and two points down when soupy got that scoreable free. How would anyone's instinct be to drop it in and look for a goal in that scenario? Beggars belief to think anyone who watches football regularly would advocate that.

If you're making other points worth serious consideration, making those and other daft points with such certainly means that common sense observers will just give you a fool's pass.

I have the game recorded. Haven't see it yet but I will by all means look at it again. On the other point I think you misunderstand me. Look at the number of times we carry the ball to or through midfield and watch the number of blue shirts running back at the same time. Then look at the results when we do kick it in to the inside forwards.

[DuffleKing]

I presume you weren't at the game. Laois always had one and sometimes two extra defenders back most of the time. That's hardly a revelation in the modern game but it's a reality when you're assessing the rights and wrongs of kicking the ball forward.

[LCohen]

I presume you weren't at the game.

Presume away. It isn't working for you but tear on

Laois always had one and sometimes two extra defenders back most of the time.

When did I say they didn't?

That's hardly a revelation in the modern game

Correct. It does appear to be a revelation to our management though.

but it's a reality when you're assessing the rights and wrongs of kicking the ball forward.

And the reality is they have even more boys trying to get back and the longer you gave them the more they gat back and get set.
That is the reality that Armagh are not dealing with and you seem unwilling to accept

[DuffleKing]

Armaghs main source of turning ball over was by kicking poor ball into the forward line that was cut out by the single and double sweeper. You're lamenting that they only hand passed sideways coming forward. It's recognised even by the kids on the county forum that they were kicking the ball more than ever yesterday. So which criticism is it - they didn't kick it forward and they should have despite the double sweepers. Or, the criticism that managemeant didn't realise that there was two sweepers and the approach didn't reflect that?


In fact, let's just simplify your madness. Your opening moan was that Armagh only soloed the ball through the middle of the park allowing numbers back. The consensus with everyone at the game was that they had to stop kicking the ball into a forward line populated with covering defenders. Work the rest out yourself.

[stew]

Were shite altogether, period, end of!

[LCohen]

Armaghs main source of turning ball over was by kicking poor ball into the forward line that was cut out by the single and double sweeper. You're lamenting that they only hand passed sideways coming forward. It's recognised even by the kids on the county forum that they were kicking the ball more than ever yesterday. So which criticism is it - they didn't kick it forward and they should have despite the double sweepers. Or, the criticism that managemeant didn't realise that there was two sweepers and the approach didn't reflect that?

I think you should take a step back and look at the game and my post again.

In the game we had plenty of possessions in our full and half back lines. We elected to solo that ball forward. Laois were happy with this and let us at it. We carry the ball until we get close to the defensive line. The we take it into contact (poor results), attempt long range points (poor results as the wrong men are on the ball) or kick it in to the forward (poor results as they are completely surrounded by this stage). I am not even complaining about the decisions made when we confront the defensive line its the decisions before that. We are helping to create the problem and then struggling to solve it.

[DuffleKing]

Armaghs main source of turning ball over was by kicking poor ball into the forward line that was cut out by the single and double sweeper. You're lamenting that they only hand passed sideways coming forward. It's recognised even by the kids on the county forum that they were kicking the ball more than ever yesterday. So which criticism is it - they didn't kick it forward and they should have despite the double sweepers. Or, the criticism that managemeant didn't realise that there was two sweepers and the approach didn't reflect that?

I think you should take a step back and look at the game and my post again.

In the game we had plenty of possessions in our full and half back lines. We elected to solo that ball forward. Laois were happy with this and let us at it. We carry the ball until we get close to the defensive line. The we take it into contact (poor results), attempt long range points (poor results as the wrong men are on the ball) or kick it in to the forward (poor results as they are completely surrounded by this stage). I am not even complaining about the decisions made when we confront the defensive line its the decisions before that. We are helping to create the problem and then struggling to solve it.

There is lots to criticise them about but your assertion in bold is patently wrong if you watched the game at all.

[Avondhu star]

Armagh are living off of past glories (one All Ireland). No point hiding behind Crossmaglens succesz

[Orior]

This is all part of Geezer's 5-year plan. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards