Figuring out who is catholic on the NI soccer panel

[muppet]

Gold - you touched on why unionists want to be England and worship a 90 year old monarch. Why do England want to worship a 90 year old monarch and stand to an anthem about her? That has always baffled me. It's like Ireland standing to an anthem about Bono.

Yes the NI flag is baffling but the anthem thing is utterly laughable. For the English and particularly NI.

Why do Americans stand, hand on heart, to a flag with stars and stripes? Why do Gaa supporters stand and either sing or be quiet, for (most of) the Soldiers song?

A: Because most of the time, that is what they think they are supposed to do. There are exceptions of course when you might actually really feel like doing it, for example, if you won an Olympic medal it would probably really mean something to you and your family/friends/supporters. But more of the time it is probably just peer pressure and/or the power of suggestion.

[Tonto]

Ok Tonto, but why not a 'go it alone' 32 county parliament? We're nice enough down here.

Probably for the same reason nationalists will never be unionists. Emotion. Identity.

Fair enough, yet you expect nationalists in NI to be ok under a regime they have no.emotion or identity with.

Accepting the state's right to exist and its current constitutional status is not the same as wanting it to exist. Politically nationalists accepted that in 1998, but mentally it's taking a wee while to process 

[SkillfulBill]

Gold - you touched on why unionists want to be England and worship a 90 year old monarch. Why do England want to worship a 90 year old monarch and stand to an anthem about her? That has always baffled me. It's like Ireland standing to an anthem about Bono.

Yes the NI flag is baffling but the anthem thing is utterly laughable. For the English and particularly NI.

The foundation of the 6 county state has nothing to do with Irish or Britishness but everything to do with religion being used to ensure the positions of landed gentry in the late 1700's onwards. Republicanism is rooted in the protestant reformed church. Wolftone, McCracken and Orr 1798. The Orange Order foundation and Organisation by the land owners of the time was established as a bullwork to the threat from Republicanism using religious differences to ensure the position of the establishment. Catholicism should have been more a kin to monarchist rule than Protestantism especially Presbyterians. Presbyterians should be more comfortable in a republic providing the state is seperate from the Catholic church. The more secterianism and the symbols of secterianism are erradicated in the North the greater the threat to the establishment. Thats why secterian symbols such as GSTQ flags and songs around the NI team will remain to ensure the divisions are maintained to some degree.

[Milltown Row2]

Gold - you touched on why unionists want to be England and worship a 90 year old monarch. Why do England want to worship a 90 year old monarch and stand to an anthem about her? That has always baffled me. It's like Ireland standing to an anthem about Bono.

Yes the NI flag is baffling but the anthem thing is utterly laughable. For the English and particularly NI.

The foundation of the 6 county state has nothing to do with Irish or Britishness but everything to do with religion being used to ensure the positions of landed gentry in the late 1700's onwards. Republicanism is rooted in the protestant reformed church. Wolftone, McCracken and Orr 1798. The Orange Order foundation and Organisation by the land owners of the time was established as a bullwork to the threat from Republicanism using religious differences to ensure the position of the establishment. Catholicism should have been more a kin to monarchist rule than Protestantism especially Presbyterians. Presbyterians should be more comfortable in a republic providing the state is seperate from the Catholic church. The more secterianism and the symbols of secterianism are erradicated in the North the greater the threat to the establishment. Thats why secterian symbols such as GSTQ flags and songs around the NI team will remain to ensure the divisions are maintained to some degree.

Do you accept that to unionist they see flegs emblems of an Irish form as sectarianism? People need to be more tolerant of other peoples views culture and stand point.... Harping back to 1798 wolftone and all that means feck all in todays world... Sort out the here and now and stop with the history lessons..

The funny thing is if you'd have been born on the Shankill you'd be in France watching the n.i team and waving flegs

[BennyCake]

So in essence, if one side ignored the other sides methods of antagonising, the problem would go away? Ok so that's unlikely, but it would work to a certain extent.

Maybe if catholic areas put up NI/Union flags, eventually the message unionists are portraying flying same flags would lose it's meaning. And if Catholics all turned out on the 12th, in time that would lose it's meaning too.

I do think that politics is deliberately stoking the fires though, but if they thought more about what Unites us than divides, they'd have no reason for existing.

[SkillfulBill]

Gold - you touched on why unionists want to be England and worship a 90 year old monarch. Why do England want to worship a 90 year old monarch and stand to an anthem about her? That has always baffled me. It's like Ireland standing to an anthem about Bono.

Yes the NI flag is baffling but the anthem thing is utterly laughable. For the English and particularly NI.

The foundation of the 6 county state has nothing to do with Irish or Britishness but everything to do with religion being used to ensure the positions of landed gentry in the late 1700's onwards. Republicanism is rooted in the protestant reformed church. Wolftone, McCracken and Orr 1798. The Orange Order foundation and Organisation by the land owners of the time was established as a bullwork to the threat from Republicanism using religious differences to ensure the position of the establishment. Catholicism should have been more a kin to monarchist rule than Protestantism especially Presbyterians. Presbyterians should be more comfortable in a republic providing the state is seperate from the Catholic church. The more secterianism and the symbols of secterianism are erradicated in the North the greater the threat to the establishment. Thats why secterian symbols such as GSTQ flags and songs around the NI team will remain to ensure the divisions are maintained to some degree.

Do you accept that to unionist they see flegs emblems of an Irish form as sectarianism? People need to be more tolerant of other peoples views culture and stand point.... Harping back to 1798 wolftone and all that means feck all in todays world... Sort out the here and now and stop with the history lessons..

The funny thing is if you'd have been born on the Shankill you'd be in France watching the n.i team and waving flegs

I would accept that flegs and emblems of an Irish form can be seen by Unionist as Sectarian. But you can't seperate the history from it as it is the history which sets the narrative for today and into the future. Sectarianism is the foubdation of the state and the DUP and co know without it they are toast. Thats why it will always have a place in Northern sport and politics. It might get watered down a bit so that Unionist's can point at the odd lukewarm nationalist supporting their team so they can claim the rest of them must be sectarian if they don't.

[snoopdog]

I don't support Northern Ireland simply because I don't recognise it as a country. I do have a question though for those on here that follow rugby. Why do you think it's easier to go to ravenhill and support ulster rugby a bastion of unionism  but won't support the noi football team? Double standards? Granted they don't play national anthems. Personally I think anthems before games are bollox in soccer internationals and all inter county gaa games. What's the point.

[Milltown Row2]

I don't support Northern Ireland simply because I don't recognise it as a country. I do have a question though for those on here that follow rugby. Why do you think it's easier to go to ravenhill and support ulster rugby a bastion of unionism  but won't support the noi football team? Double standards? Granted they don't play national anthems. Personally I think anthems before games are bollox in soccer internationals and all inter county gaa games. What's the point.

Double standards?? Are you on glue? Can it be that going to Ravenhill can be about watch high standard professional rugby at a very welcoming environment that is on your doorstep?  Are you continually going to politicize sport? Some fecking dinosaurs about

[LeoMc]

I don't support Northern Ireland simply because I don't recognise it as a country. I do have a question though for those on here that follow rugby. Why do you think it's easier to go to ravenhill and support ulster rugby a bastion of unionism  but won't support the noi football team? Double standards? Granted they don't play national anthems. Personally I think anthems before games are bollox in soccer internationals and all inter county gaa games. What's the point.

Ulster's pick does not stop at the border.
They are part of an All Ireland organisation.
You are as likely to see a 9 county ulstr flag as a 6 county NI one.

[imtommygunn]

Ulster rugby is fine.

For ni football they will never be fully embraced with gstq, union jacks, rogue ulster flags and some of their songs. I still like to see them do well but never could feel part of it.

[SkillfulBill]

I don't support Northern Ireland simply because I don't recognise it as a country. I do have a question though for those on here that follow rugby. Why do you think it's easier to go to ravenhill and support ulster rugby a bastion of unionism  but won't support the noi football team? Double standards? Granted they don't play national anthems. Personally I think anthems before games are bollox in soccer internationals and all inter county gaa games. What's the point.

Stand up for the Ulstermen has a little more meaning when its actually a 9 county one. Try a night out at Ravenhill and I think you will find no secterian chants and very few secteriam emblems If any.  It's a very welcoming place and the standards of the game top notch and the passion of the crowd is something to behold. Anyone in the crowd that would highlight a player for his religion or for origins in the ROI would be hunted out of the place.

[naka]

Ok Tonto, but why not a 'go it alone' 32 county parliament? We're nice enough down here.

Probably for the same reason nationalists will never be unionists. Emotion. Identity.

Fair enough, yet you expect nationalists in NI to be ok under a regime they have no.emotion or identity with.

Accepting the state's right to exist and its current constitutional status is not the same as wanting it to exist. Politically nationalists accepted that in 1998, but mentally it's taking a wee while to process 

Tonto
I think the big problem that NI have is that for the most of us we have no affiliation to the statelet.
As a nationalist I went to to WW1 graves
Because the Irish  volunteers lost as many as the uvf and  I met a very decent guide who actually had served in Ireland as a soldier  losing his mate in coalisland on his 18th birthday
He spoke to us and we had a fair chat about the 6 counties
His view was that 1921 was a mess that will never be sorted until unification
I appreciate that this doesn't suit where the unionist populace stands but it is what it is

[snoopdog]

I don't support Northern Ireland simply because I don't recognise it as a country. I do have a question though for those on here that follow rugby. Why do you think it's easier to go to ravenhill and support ulster rugby a bastion of unionism  but won't support the noi football team? Double standards? Granted they don't play national anthems. Personally I think anthems before games are bollox in soccer internationals and all inter county gaa games. What's the point.

Double standards?? Are you on glue? Can it be that going to Ravenhill can be about watch high standard professional rugby at a very welcoming environment that is on your doorstep?  Are you continually going to politicize sport? Some fecking dinosaurs about

Politicising sport? Maybe I missed something but is that not what this thread is doing. It was just a question I have no time for rugby and was asking what the difference was when Prob 90% of ravenhill would be unionist.

[armaghniac]

Double standards?? Are you on glue? Can it be that going to Ravenhill can be about watch high standard professional rugby at a very welcoming environment that is on your doorstep?  Are you continually going to politicize sport? Some fecking dinosaurs about

There is a double standard here. You are on here justifying the NI soccer team, the greatest politicisation of sport of any as it choose to represent a sectarian political entity rather than a geographical one. Despite you being the one promoting politics in sport you then come on here and accuse others of being bigots and of bringing politics into sport. Complete and utter hypocrisy, but par for the course.

[SkillfulBill]

I don't support Northern Ireland simply because I don't recognise it as a country. I do have a question though for those on here that follow rugby. Why do you think it's easier to go to ravenhill and support ulster rugby a bastion of unionism  but won't support the noi football team? Double standards? Granted they don't play national anthems. Personally I think anthems before games are bollox in soccer internationals and all inter county gaa games. What's the point.

Double standards?? Are you on glue? Can it be that going to Ravenhill can be about watch high standard professional rugby at a very welcoming environment that is on your doorstep?  Are you continually going to politicize sport? Some fecking dinosaurs about

Politicising sport? Maybe I missed something but is that not what this thread is doing. It was just a question I have no time for rugby and was asking what the difference was when Prob 90% of ravenhill would be unionist.

And the difference is the 90% are as passionate about supporting Ireland as the are about Ulster and religion or politics dose not come into it.