Figuring out who is catholic on the NI soccer panel

[Milltown Row2]

So they aren't entitled to a view? You have friends and family that don't agree with you over things?? Do you tell them "you get on my wick?"

There are many matters that are merely a matter of opinion and there is no principle involved.

The lazy I'm am who I am doesn't really cut it for me.... But it suits you.... Lot of anger in you

What is lazy about me? I'm here typing in all this.

I happen to believe that invading other countries and colonising them is wrong. Others seem to object to my views, but they never seem able to justify why invading other countries and colonising them should be considered to be right. So instead of debate all I get is is "you are very angry", or "you are a sectarian and bigoted individual" and "no different to the TUV", when I am none of those things, but name calling is easier than refuting my points.

Murdering people is wrong?? Blowing people to bits is wrong? Shooting people in front of their kids is wrong?? The invading happened or even lets say certain people actually invited the English at the time was wrong, I doubt anyone would deny that, there is not too many European countries that didn't colonised a country or six, or try and wipe out its people (American and Australia for starters) 

Your solution is for people to accept a united Ireland?  You cant change the past, nor can you change peoples views on it, the TUV quote from me is about your stubborn stance which wont yield

[armaghniac]

The invading happened or even lets say certain people actually invited the English at the time was wrong, I doubt anyone would deny that,

michaelg refused to condemn this several posts back. 

there is not too many European countries that didn't colonised a country or six, or try and wipe out its people (American and Australia for starters) 

The difference is that most other European countries, other than Russia, have stopped doing this.

Your solution is for people to accept a united Ireland?  You cant change the past, nor can you change peoples views on it, the TUV quote from me is about your stubborn stance which wont yield

My solution is for people to stop trying to pursue colonial objectives and take it from there.

Your reference to the TUV is offensive, it is a the old trick of implying symmetry in the situation. Those who cause the problem and those who oppose them are not comparable.

[Milltown Row2]

The invading happened or even lets say certain people actually invited the English at the time was wrong, I doubt anyone would deny that,

michaelg refused to condemn this several posts back. 

there is not too many European countries that didn't colonised a country or six, or try and wipe out its people (American and Australia for starters) 

The difference is that most other European countries, other than Russia, have stopped doing this.

Your solution is for people to accept a united Ireland?  You cant change the past, nor can you change peoples views on it, the TUV quote from me is about your stubborn stance which wont yield

My solution is for people to stop trying to pursue colonial objectives and take it from there.

Your reference to the TUV is offensive, it is a the old trick of implying symmetry in the situation. Those who cause the problem and those who oppose them are not comparable.

But surely that depends on your point of view... By whatever reason TUV think they are right and you think you're right.....

And this is n.i

As for countries not doing it, there is a host of countries still being 'ruled' by European countries

[BennyCake]

Interesting to see Neil Lennon representing Norn Irn on 'Pointless' yesterday, considering how his international career ended.

[armaghniac]

But surely that depends on your point of view... By whatever reason TUV think they are right and you think you're right.....

If you believe that there is no right and wrong and there is only a point of view, then there is no point in discussing with you as you lack any moral compass.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

On topic.
I reckon there is more taigs than you think on the NI team as a number of those English born boys are as likely to be Catholic as Protestant although same could be said for the English born Republic lads a fair few are going to be Protestant which of course blows the OWC fans accusations of football apartheid by the FAI to smithereens.

Off topic
Picking up on an earlier point  Alan Kernaghan was picked by big Jack using the granny rule. He wasnt picked by the IFA team because shock horror he wasnt born in Norn Iron despite living here through most of his youth!!! Fast forward 20 years and Northern Ireland will pick anyone they can including German born keepers with no links to the North at all lol and the poaching argument has also been torpedoed when they selected ex republic youth player Johnny Gorman.

I personally dont mind if Northern Ireland do well I supported them myself in the mid-late eighties until I was old enough to realise how septic Windsor was. The players and manager and vast majority of the fans now are great but there is still significant fan base that is rotten.

The IFA have made great progress but it counts for nothing if they dont address flags, anthem and stadium. As noted earlier the stadium opportunity has now already passed oh nevermind. The anthem dilemma has also largely been ducked as the ifa's own internal report found no need to change it despite ex players like Paul McVeigh going public about how uncomfortable they felt.

Some nationalists will never support northern Ireland no matter what and that is true but many more may be interested if the actual big issues were addressed. The lazy attitude that sure nothing is really wrong is unacceptable. The arguments against change are as hollow as all the other non-existent chip chippity chip against ARE FLEGGER KULTUR shite, genocide so it is.

[T Fearon]

I have no problem with the use of flags and anthems in appropriate fashion here,and not in any way triumphalistic.At the end of the day NI is part of the U.K., and SF and SDLP agree this cannot change unless there is majority consent,so the playing of the anthem is technically appropriate given the constitutional position.Having said that it is embarrassing that the same anthem as the England team uses is played,and a greater effort should be made to follow the example of the Scots and Welsh and have a region specific anthem.By the same token the playing of the national anthem may be alienating Protestants from GAA.

[BennyCake]

I have no problem with the use of flags and anthems in appropriate fashion here,and not in any way triumphalistic.At the end of the day NI is part of the U.K., and SF and SDLP agree this cannot change unless there is majority consent,so the playing of the anthem is technically appropriate given the constitutional position.Having said that it is embarrassing that the same anthem as the England team uses is played,and a greater effort should be made to follow the example of the Scots and Welsh and have a region specific anthem.By the same token the playing of the national anthem may be alienating Protestants from GAA.

Agree with that last point. I think it's better to abandon the anthem if it's going to be butchered like today in Clones. I was always an advocate of flag/anthem at GAA matches, but now I think they are no longer needed, and that's not because it might annoy a few unionists. I just don't see the need for them.

Watched Jake O'Kane and Colin Murphy show other nifht, and they visited Windsor Park for a match. Funny thing happened, I wonder if deliberately, they ended up in wrong stand, had to go find proper seats and ended up missing start of match and anthems. Being two Catholics I assume maybe they deliberately missed the anthem. I mean, stewards wouldnt even allow you into The Hogan if you had a Cusack ticket so I don't understand how that could happen.

Anyway, back to OP - removal of flag/anthem at NI matches is irrelevant as most Catholics aren't interested in supporting them. Same with Protestants and The GAA.

[T Fearon]

I think you should be able to go and watch sport in a comfortable non threatening setting,even when you don't support the team.Have to say a song with musical accompaniment and a few coloured rags no longer annoy or offend me in the slightest, in any setting.More important things in life

[armaghniac]

I think you should be able to go and watch sport in a comfortable non threatening setting,even when you don't support the team.Have to say a song with musical accompaniment and a few coloured rags no longer annoy or offend me in the slightest, in any setting.More important things in life

Sectarian flags and anthems, no problem, but a fellow going to America seems to offend you greatly.

[seafoid]

I have no problem with the use of flags and anthems in appropriate fashion here,and not in any way triumphalistic.At the end of the day NI is part of the U.K., and SF and SDLP agree this cannot change unless there is majority consent,so the playing of the anthem is technically appropriate given the constitutional position.Having said that it is embarrassing that the same anthem as the England team uses is played,and a greater effort should be made to follow the example of the Scots and Welsh and have a region specific anthem.By the same token the playing of the national anthem may be alienating Protestants from GAA.

Agree with that last point. I think it's better to abandon the anthem if it's going to be butchered like today in Clones. I was always an advocate of flag/anthem at GAA matches, but now I think they are no longer needed, and that's not because it might annoy a few unionists. I just don't see the need for them.

Watched Jake O'Kane and Colin Murphy show other nifht, and they visited Windsor Park for a match. Funny thing happened, I wonder if deliberately, they ended up in wrong stand, had to go find proper seats and ended up missing start of match and anthems. Being two Catholics I assume maybe they deliberately missed the anthem. I mean, stewards wouldnt even allow you into The Hogan if you had a Cusack ticket so I don't understand how that could happen.

Anyway, back to OP - removal of flag/anthem at NI matches is irrelevant as most Catholics aren't interested in supporting them. Same with Protestants and The GAA.

At discos in the 80s I remember they'd play Amhrá n na bhFiann to wrap things up and I always thought it was nuts.
I don't mind it at matches. It gets the crowd going.
The South has very few flags compared to OWC. Driving around NI from Dundalk say the first butchers aprons are very striking. They always strike me as part of a very dysfunctional conversation. A zero sum game.

[T Fearon]

That is because sections of both communities are so insecure here (on both sides here) that they have to paint kerbstones,and adorn every lamppost with flags.

[seafoid]

That is because sections of both communities are so insecure here (on both sides here) that they have to paint kerbstones,and adorn every lamppost with flags.

surely it's because there is no shared identity.   2 tribes
the murals are the same.

there was one I saw in Belfast, a snippet from  a very very old poem in Irish. The Unionists have nothing to match that since they have only been around 400 years

[T Fearon]

Unionists gave us the likes of CS Lewis,Louis Mc Neice and half of US Presidents.

[Applesisapples]

Guys I'm hazarding a guess here but I doubt everyone playing of the Republic of Ireland isn't catholic as its not like when you leave the north you are just surrounded by Catholics...

Me I'll be supporting ROI cause I grew up supporting them and that sure as hell isn't going change now, I have seen progress from NI in terms to the anti catholic thing but plenty more needs to be made.

In saying that I'll also want NI to win their matches, its only England I'm desperate to see lose.

I was speaking recently to a rep from a nationalist/catholic soccer team who told me that whilst on the face of it the IFA are promoting an end to sectarianism, in reality a lot of attitudes on the ground still haven't changed. I personally have no affinity with NI teams in any sport and can't comprehend why any nationalist would play for them but to each his own. If people want to play and support these teams who am I to tell them not to. In any case it gives me two teams to want to see bate in the Euros.