Figuring out who is catholic on the NI soccer panel

[michaelg]

I know you have made a recent post about sectarianism not being a two way street or some other such nonsense, but you are one of the most sectarian and bigoted individuals that I have ever encountered. Every post you make is loaded with invective and you seem to have a deep-seated hatred for everything related to the protestant / unionist community. Do you actually know or like any protestant / unionist people?

I see the name calling has started.

If I said something untrue then correct me. Calling names is clear sign that you have no basis for argument.
The Protestant/Unionist community has many admirable traits, but an ability to reflect on their sordid history is not one of them.
If you have evidence to the contrary then please provide it, otherwise apologise for calling me one of the most sectarian and bigoted individuals that you have ever encountered.

David Trimble apologising for Northern Ireland being a 'coldhouse for catholics' would be one example. You didn't answer my question by the way.

Trimble apologised for the temperature of the house, but not the building of it in the first place. It was a house designed to privilege one group over another and while fiddling around with the thermostat is welcome, it doesn't change the original and continuing intention of the building.

Do you accept that the British colonisation of Ireland was an evil act by evil people and that no moral person can propose its  continuance? A simple yes or no will do and no blather about different times, in the past and all that.

And if by your question you mean do I know or like any protestant / unionist people?  Of course I know and like Protestant people, which of course has nothing to do with being unionist. I certainly number among my friends people whose grandfathers signed the Ulster Covenant, but who have decided to leave the negative and destructive elements of their heritage behind them and become positive members (and very welcome) of the community.

You don't half talk a lot of shite with your thermostats and what have you.  You asked for an example and I provided one.  You also talk about the 'continuing intention of the building' to be to priviege one group over another - Not sure how you can arrive at this conclusion when there is powersharing and Martin McGuiness is DFM.

As for your questions about the colonisation of Ireland, you are attempting looking at a complex matter in very simplistic terms.  As such, I won't be drawn on answer to the first part of your question.  You keep prattling on about colonisation projects etc, but this does not reflect the reality of the situation in Ireland.  When protestants and catholics in Nothern Ireland want to remain as part of the UK, they are not enacting the next stage of some colonisation project which you often refer to.  People want NI to remain within the UK for a variety of reasons, so yes, a 'moral person can propose its continuation', if by this you mean wanting to maintain the union with Britain.

[armaghniac]

As for your questions about the colonisation of Ireland, you are attempting looking at a complex matter in very simplistic terms.  As such, I won't be drawn on answer to the first part of your question. 

What is complex about simply stating that invading neighbouring countries with a view to colonising them is simply wrong? Do the Commandments not talk about not killing and stealing? There is nothing complex about this in moral terms.

Your reply is pretty predictable though, the usual obfuscation. As you have failed reflect on the sordid history of the PUL enterprise, exactly as I said would happen, please apologise for calling me one of the most sectarian and bigoted individuals that you have ever encountered.

[seafoid]

I know you have made a recent post about sectarianism not being a two way street or some other such nonsense, but you are one of the most sectarian and bigoted individuals that I have ever encountered. Every post you make is loaded with invective and you seem to have a deep-seated hatred for everything related to the protestant / unionist community. Do you actually know or like any protestant / unionist people?

I see the name calling has started.

If I said something untrue then correct me. Calling names is clear sign that you have no basis for argument.
The Protestant/Unionist community has many admirable traits, but an ability to reflect on their sordid history is not one of them.
If you have evidence to the contrary then please provide it, otherwise apologise for calling me one of the most sectarian and bigoted individuals that you have ever encountered.

David Trimble apologising for Northern Ireland being a 'coldhouse for catholics' would be one example. You didn't answer my question by the way.

Trimble apologised for the temperature of the house, but not the building of it in the first place. It was a house designed to privilege one group over another and while fiddling around with the thermostat is welcome, it doesn't change the original and continuing intention of the building.

Do you accept that the British colonisation of Ireland was an evil act by evil people and that no moral person can propose its  continuance? A simple yes or no will do and no blather about different times, in the past and all that.

And if by your question you mean do I know or like any protestant / unionist people?  Of course I know and like Protestant people, which of course has nothing to do with being unionist. I certainly number among my friends people whose grandfathers signed the Ulster Covenant, but who have decided to leave the negative and destructive elements of their heritage behind them and become positive members (and very welcome) of the community.

You don't half talk a lot of shite with your thermostats and what have you.  You asked for an example and I provided one.  You also talk about the 'continuing intention of the building' to be to priviege one group over another - Not sure how you can arrive at this conclusion when there is powersharing and Martin McGuiness is DFM.

As for your questions about the colonisation of Ireland, you are attempting looking at a complex matter in very simplistic terms.  As such, I won't be drawn on answer to the first part of your question.  You keep prattling on about colonisation projects etc, but this does not reflect the reality of the situation in Ireland.  When protestants and catholics in Nothern Ireland want to remain as part of the UK, they are not enacting the next stage of some colonisation project which you often refer to.  People want NI to remain within the UK for a variety of reasons, so yes, a 'moral person can propose its continuation', if by this you mean wanting to maintain the union with Britain.

It's not complicated. The plantation was stupid. The establishment of NI was immoral. The injustices were immoral. 
the assumptions that NI was built on collapsed in the 1960s.

[michaelg]

As for your questions about the colonisation of Ireland, you are attempting looking at a complex matter in very simplistic terms.  As such, I won't be drawn on answer to the first part of your question. 

What is complex about simply stating that invading neighbouring countries with a view to colonising them is simply wrong? Do the Commandments not talk about not killing and stealing? There is nothing complex about this in moral terms.

Your reply is pretty predictable though, the usual obfuscation. As you have failed reflect on the sordid history of the PUL enterprise, exactly as I said would happen, please apologise for calling me one of the most sectarian and bigoted individuals that you have ever encountered.

Don't think I am going to waste any more of my time engaging with you.  As for an apology, that will not be happening as I stand by my original statement.  As I said previously, your clear dislike and enmity towards anything to do with the protestant / unionist community comes across in many of your posts.

[seafoid]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2016/jun/04/euro-2016-warm-ups-slovakia-v-northern-ireland-france-v-scotland-and-more

Oh no! This is not good for Northern Ireland. After losing Cathcart in the first half, Kyle Lafferty – who dreamt of scoring against Messi and Ronaldo in the Euros – has now gone down injured in the centre circle. He makes way for Washington

[T Fearon]

Going into finals on the back of a 12 match unbeaten run,the best record of the 24 finalists.

[armaghniac]

Don't think I am going to waste any more of my time engaging with you. 

You haven't really engaged with me, other than calling me names.

As for an apology, that will not be happening as I stand by my original statement. 

No surrender. Not an inch!!

As I said previously, your clear dislike and enmity towards anything to do with the protestant / unionist community comes across in many of your posts.

I have a clear dislike of unionist politics, as any reasonable person would.
I have said nothing against Protestants whatsoever.

And as for the unionist community, I think it a tragedy that their possible enormous positive contribution is prevented by their attachment to the past and its colonial sectarian values and the consequently endless negativity that results from that.

[seafoid]

Don't think I am going to waste any more of my time engaging with you. 

You haven't really engaged with me, other than calling me names.

As for an apology, that will not be happening as I stand by my original statement. 

No surrender. Not an inch!!

As I said previously, your clear dislike and enmity towards anything to do with the protestant / unionist community comes across in many of your posts.

I have a clear dislike of unionist politics, as any reasonable person would.
I have said nothing against Protestants whatsoever.

And as for the unionist community, I think it a tragedy that their possible enormous positive contribution is prevented by their attachment to the past and its colonial sectarian values and the consequently endless negativity that results from that.

Me too. Such a waste of Protestant potential and energy .

[Milltown Row2]

Don't think I am going to waste any more of my time engaging with you. 

You haven't really engaged with me, other than calling me names.

As for an apology, that will not be happening as I stand by my original statement. 

No surrender. Not an inch!!

As I said previously, your clear dislike and enmity towards anything to do with the protestant / unionist community comes across in many of your posts.

I have a clear dislike of unionist politics, as any reasonable person would.
I have said nothing against Protestants whatsoever.

And as for the unionist community, I think it a tragedy that their possible enormous positive contribution is prevented by their attachment to the past and its colonial sectarian values and the consequently endless negativity that results from that.

Everyone has an attachment to the past, a lot of it negative ....

[armaghniac]

Everyone has an attachment to the past, a lot of it negative ....

Respect for tradition is admirable, but some traditions are best left in the past.

[Milltown Row2]

Everyone has an attachment to the past, a lot of it negative ....

Respect for tradition is admirable, but some traditions are best left in the past.

And that is fair enough..... We will get to where it will be by voting for it, thinking you are right all the time and everyone else's views are wrong only makes you sound silly.....

It is what it is, not by your actions but by the actions of people back in the day.... Partition caused division, rightly or wrongly , to be fair I've a lot of resentment to how the Irish and British government at the time left the state as it is.... If looking to blame why we have what have its not the everyday unionists they took advantage of the situation.....as probably you had you been born in a different street as these things are an accident of birth

[T Fearon]

The working classes,both Protestant and catholic are and always have been the true majority and disadvantaged in the North,not the middle classes.Just the same as it was and is in the South.When people see through the bullshit and realise this we might make progress.

[armaghniac]

And that is fair enough..... We will get to where it will be by voting for it, thinking you are right all the time and everyone else's views are wrong only makes you sound silly.....

If I did not think I was right, I wouldn't propagate those views. If others wish to claim I am wrong then they need to say why they disagree with me, rather than calling me names.

It is what it is, not by your actions but by the actions of people back in the day.... Partition caused division, rightly or wrongly , to be fair I've a lot of resentment to how the Irish and British government at the time left the state as it is.... If looking to blame why we have what have its not the everyday unionists they took advantage of the situation.....as probably you had you been born in a different street as these things are an accident of birth

To the extent that I was born in North Belfast I might not have had to go far to have a different view. But given that I am who I am, this lazy analysis free "the two sides are the same" "everyone is entitled to their view" etc gets on my wick.

[Milltown Row2]

And that is fair enough..... We will get to where it will be by voting for it, thinking you are right all the time and everyone else's views are wrong only makes you sound silly.....

If I did not think I was right, I wouldn't propagate those views. If others wish to claim I am wrong then they need to say why they disagree with me, rather than calling me names.

It is what it is, not by your actions but by the actions of people back in the day.... Partition caused division, rightly or wrongly , to be fair I've a lot of resentment to how the Irish and British government at the time left the state as it is.... If looking to blame why we have what have its not the everyday unionists they took advantage of the situation.....as probably you had you been born in a different street as these things are an accident of birth

To the extent that I was born in North Belfast I might not have had to go far to have a different view. But given that I am who I am, this lazy analysis free "the two sides are the same" "everyone is entitled to their view" etc gets on my wick.

[/quote]

So they aren't entitled to a view? You have friends and family that don't agree with you over things?? Do you tell them "you get on my wick?"

Do you believe your views would be different had you been born on the Shankill? The lazy I'm am who I am doesn't really cut it for me.... But it suits you.... Lot of anger in you

[armaghniac]

So they aren't entitled to a view? You have friends and family that don't agree with you over things?? Do you tell them "you get on my wick?"

There are many matters that are merely a matter of opinion and there is no principle involved.

The lazy I'm am who I am doesn't really cut it for me.... But it suits you.... Lot of anger in you

What is lazy about me? I'm here typing in all this.

I happen to believe that invading other countries and colonising them is wrong. Others seem to object to my views, but they never seem able to justify why invading other countries and colonising them should be considered to be right. So instead of debate all I get is is "you are very angry", or "you are a sectarian and bigoted individual" and "no different to the TUV", when I am none of those things, but name calling is easier than refuting my points.