Kilkenny

[clonadmad]

09 Tipp could have and should have beaten Kk,in 14 they were millmetres from beating them

In those 3 finals that they have lost ,Tipp have beaten them by a cumulative total of 31 points.

Ten years later, are people still really trying to push this myth?

Have seen a lot of guff proclaiming tipp the team of the decade on Twitter since Sunday. Since "this" Tipp team emerged in '09 they've had, by my count, 8 championship meetings with 2014 counting as one meeting. It's 5-3 to KK with 3 all Irelands each, an almighty drubbing in the 2012 semi for KK included. Kk have also beaten then in four League finals in that period, with Tipp failing to win a single League title. Does anyone who is capable of ignoring recency bias actually think Tipp are the team of the decade?!

It will be up there with the myth soon enough of Hogan not getting sent off and then Kk winning in 19.

The only currency that counts in either county is  all ireland wins

And it now stands at 3 apiece.

[marty34]

09 Tipp could have and should have beaten Kk,in 14 they were millmetres from beating them

In those 3 finals that they have lost ,Tipp have beaten them by a cumulative total of 31 points.

Ten years later, are people still really trying to push this myth?

Have seen a lot of guff proclaiming tipp the team of the decade on Twitter since Sunday. Since "this" Tipp team emerged in '09 they've had, by my count, 8 championship meetings with 2014 counting as one meeting. It's 5-3 to KK with 3 all Irelands each, an almighty drubbing in the 2012 semi for KK included. Kk have also beaten then in four League finals in that period, with Tipp failing to win a single League title. Does anyone who is capable of ignoring recency bias actually think Tipp are the team of the decade?!

Kilkenny still lifted 4 AI's in this decade to 3 for Tipp, so it's KK for me even if it was the earlier part of the decade and not as fresh in peoples minds.

Cody has managed KK to 11 AI's, that will need be achieved again, but as someone alluded to he also like Fergie may be outstaying his welcome and like Fergie may have stayed for one last horrah (Fergie managed his) and failed.

The style of hurling has changed, but at times you think Kilkenny are still sticking with the tried and tested, outwork and overpower your opponent, force the errors and punish them on the scoreboard.

Not a lot wrong with that, but when some team competes and betters you in the physicality stakes, nullifies your best players you need something more than putting TJ, Walter and Fennelly under a high ball and hope for the best.
It smacks of lack of trust in the young guns and yes, they're not Henry Shefflins, Eddie Brennans or Eoin Larkins, but at least play ball in that suits their skillset.

I can see Paul Murphy hang up the boots, there's a year or two left in TJ Reid and probably Fennelly. Wally needs to become a leader and failed miserably at that when out caught two or three times by Heffernan and the Mahers in the second half. He failed to stand up.  Buckley is a fine hurler but the long injury spell affected him badly and he should be a more formidable player next year.
Hogan, I'm not so sure about. Yes, terrible way for him to go out but I really can't see Cody (If he goes another year) doing sentiment as you get the impression that Cody doesn't totally buy into him now.

Big Lawlor at fullback is a find all the same and the much maligned Joey Holden had a stormer of a year.
They may have rode their luck to get to an AI final, but Kilkenny will never be too far away.

John Donnelly a great addidition at half forward - probably KK's best player on the day.

Adrian Mullen will probably get YHOTH so plenty of potential with Lawlor at full back.  Conor Browne showed really well in last few matches. Young but the experience will stsnd to him. All in all, a very good year for KK.

Darren Mullen, Adrian's brother, has a good chance at corner back next year.  Hurled really well in Ballyhale's AI run this year.

[NAG1]

Hard to argue with anything that has been said, its a good debate.

IMO Kilkenny ran out of ideas very quickly, think this probably shows their lack of a squad too. Cody couldnt turn around at HT and change personnel to counter act what they knew would be coming from Tipp with the extra man. So he reverted to type.

Maybe the game has moved on from this type of hurling and KK havent moved with it.

KK extremely lucky to make the final but probably got shown up for where they are currently, slightly short.

[johnnycool]

Hard to argue with anything that has been said, its a good debate.

IMO Kilkenny ran out of ideas very quickly, think this probably shows their lack of a squad too. Cody couldnt turn around at HT and change personnel to counter act what they knew would be coming from Tipp with the extra man. So he reverted to type.

Maybe the game has moved on from this type of hurling and KK havent moved with it.

KK extremely lucky to make the final but probably got shown up for where they are currently, slightly short.

Cody threw on a few speedsters yet the ball from defence was still high and central.

Didn't make much sense.

[NAG1]

Hard to argue with anything that has been said, its a good debate.

IMO Kilkenny ran out of ideas very quickly, think this probably shows their lack of a squad too. Cody couldnt turn around at HT and change personnel to counter act what they knew would be coming from Tipp with the extra man. So he reverted to type.

Maybe the game has moved on from this type of hurling and KK havent moved with it.

KK extremely lucky to make the final but probably got shown up for where they are currently, slightly short.

Cody threw on a few speedsters yet the ball from defence was still high and central.

Didn't make much sense.

Yeah they needed stick men to keep and hold the ball and work it up the field and create opportunities to get back into the game.

Weren't able to do so, but the long ball in was a tactical nightmare.

[marty34]

Part of the problem, I think, stemed from the lack of man-marking Noel Mc Grath.  A man of that ability can't be swanning about the middle third dictating play.  He's an unreal hurler - can pick a pass that no-one else can see.  A bit like a quarter-back in that he always makes things happen for Tipp, where ever he plays.  This year Sheedy gave him that free role around mid-field and he'll be in the running for Player of the Year I'd say.

With thi, KK should have told Browne to never leave his side.  Go everywhere with him and don't worry about the ball.  Just negate his influence on the game.

That's the first match up I'd have made.  All good in hindsight but I'd have thought this was clear last 2 weeks ago.

[johnnycool]

Alert,
     The manliness levels are being raised up a notch........

http://www.hoganstand.com/County/National/Article/Index/309350

[seafoid]

Alert,
     The manliness levels are being raised up a notch........

http://www.hoganstand.com/County/National/Article/Index/309350

Good man Eddie..He would want to be careful.with the manliness though. A trans posse could hear about it.

[johnnycool]

Cody going another year but DJ steps down from the management team.

Don't think either move is good for Kilkenny at this stage.

[Milltown Row2]

Cody going another year but DJ steps down from the management team.

Don't think either move is good for Kilkenny at this stage.

Whoever steps in will have a job on his hands, it'll be like when Fergie left Utd

[johnnycool]

Cody going another year but DJ steps down from the management team.

Don't think either move is good for Kilkenny at this stage.

Whoever steps in will have a job on his hands, it'll be like when Fergie left Utd

Whoever steps in can't go and buy whoever in the transfer market.

I think Kilkenny needed a change for 2021 and the reasons being is their reliance on TJ Reid who's a fantastic hurler but on the way down age wise and it would have been good for the new management to have him at least still at the top of his game for a year or two. With Cody going again that will be denied to the new management and you can see by the way Kilkenny play they're between game styles both on and off the field in 2020. They tried to go through the lines in some games but when the pressure game on both the players and Cody reverted to type with long direct balls into the forwards.
They got lucky against Galway as the long ball caught Galway out and both Reid and Hogan capitalised. That didn't work for them against Waterford who dominated the airways and certainly wouldn't work if they come up against Limerick.
New management with new ideas are required down on Noreside.

[imtommygunn]

I actually think he's possibly over achieving though do agree it's time for a change. TJ's age is not in their favour. There are a number of younger guys there who do have decent ability though but leadership wise Walsh being the age he is won't help either.

I don't believe they would have beat Galway this year or Limerick last with a different manager. (Just an opinion as we'll never know!)

[Bord na Mona man]

I actually think he's possibly over achieving though do agree it's time for a change. TJ's age is not in their favour. There are a number of younger guys there who do have decent ability though but leadership wise Walsh being the age he is won't help either.

I don't believe they would have beat Galway this year or Limerick last with a different manager. (Just an opinion as we'll never know!)

It seems like a paradox, but Kilkenny are probably over achieving with Cody right now, given the quality isn't there any more.
Yet I don't think he is the right man to rebuild them. The new generation of hurler (and any sport star) are way more focussed on plans, metrics, statistics and want precise information about how to improve their performances.
The old school master approach only goes so far these days.

[johnnycool]

Ger Aylward, Paul Murphy and Colin Fennelly calling it a day in the Black and Amber, that's a big enough blow to the panel even if Aylward never really fulfilled his potential due to injuries, Murphy's best days were behind him, fair enough but there's something afoot when Fennelly calls it a day.

[imtommygunn]

Fennelly still has a lot to offer. I dunno if I've ever seen anyone as strong play the game. Some of those goals he was getting for Ballyhale last year he was brushing aside big big men like they were wee kids.

I have read there are some not happy with Cody(players). Hard to know whether just internet rumour though.