Author Topic: Kilkenny  (Read 51810 times)

clonadmad

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #240 on: August 20, 2019, 05:40:03 PM »
thought they completely ran out of ideas yesterday

launching long ball after long ball in, in the hope Fennelly or TJ might get onto it
Heffernan cleaned up
They don't have much experience as a team, I suppose
The previous version of KK would have known what to do . Shefflin  would have dragged them back into the match , for example.
Although 14 on 15 is a hard ask at the best of times

The KK 15 team that took the pitch had 40 all ireland medals between them,dont be swallowing the inexperienced or rebuilding line,their tactics were laughable to say the least.
They had more than a few young players who never played in an AIF before.
Winning is about building a cohesive team that plays to a system and gets into the right rhythm. It doesn't matter how many medals the older lads have if the young lads can't perform under pressure. When a team loses a few players have off days .

It wasnít the young players that let them down,a lot of the older crew simply didnít perform or werenít up to it,that and Codyís caveman tactics contributed to them getting a trimming.

He stood looking in 2016 as the Tipp Full Forward line scored 2-21 and did nothing either.

 

Milltown Row2

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #241 on: August 20, 2019, 08:49:16 PM »
Would you listen to yas! We are talking about Cody, his teams have out performed the Tipps, Corks, Limericks Waterfords since he took over!

They duffed Limerick handy enough and while the first half they didnít finish as strong as they would have liked they were still in the game.

The sending off was huge, (justified)  especially since they were to sub Hogan! Granted lumping the ball into a full forward line that was out muscled by an extra man wasnít the best move, but you canít assassinate the man for one defeat.
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

marty34

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #242 on: August 20, 2019, 09:08:57 PM »
My thinking on it was right, in at half-time and KK will play to a system.  Regroup, play the short game and try to tip (pardon the pun) over a few points and stay in game.  Game  of Tipp V Wexford should have told them to go short and keep the scoreboard ticking over.

Was disappointing that KK went for the long ball too early - very similar to the Wexfod Lenister Final game, where they lobbed the ball into the square with 5 or 6 mins early. 

On Sunday, no need to force the goal so early, keep the points going.  Plus when they stationed T.J., Walter and Fennelly in the square, there was zero movement laterally across the line.

I was just hoping, with 15mins at half-time, they'd have better tactics for the second half.

clonadmad

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #243 on: August 20, 2019, 10:17:07 PM »
Would you listen to yas! We are talking about Cody, his teams have out performed the Tipps, Corks, Limericks Waterfords since he took over!

They duffed Limerick handy enough and while the first half they didnít finish as strong as they would have liked they were still in the game.

The sending off was huge, (justified)  especially since they were to sub Hogan! Granted lumping the ball into a full forward line that was out muscled by an extra man wasnít the best move, but you canít assassinate the man for one defeat.

Tipp and Kk have played each other in 6 deciders

It stands at 3 apiece now,

09 Tipp could have and should have beaten Kk,in 14 they were millmetres from beating them

In those 3 finals that they have lost ,Tipp have beaten them by a cumulative total of 31 points.

Cody is some man to set up a team when it has to be done on the fly not so much.

Lamping ball after ball into a Tipp full back line where Barrett was operating as the extra man and where the dogs in the street knew that the Tipp backs would foul continuously if ran at was an inexplicable  error

Thatís even before we get to him playing an injured Buckley,Hogan who was struggling even in the warm up and Adrian Mullen who spent a night on a drip midweek in St.Lukes,Youíd wonder why he hadnít learnt from Tennyson and Shefflin in 2010

In 2016,The Tipp Full Forward line scored 2-21 and he didnít very little to counter act this despite having the likes of Jackie Tyrell in the stand.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 10:29:01 PM by clonadmad »

north_antrim_hound

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #244 on: August 20, 2019, 11:28:05 PM »
Would you listen to yas! We are talking about Cody, his teams have out performed the Tipps, Corks, Limericks Waterfords since he took over!

They duffed Limerick handy enough and while the first half they didnít finish as strong as they would have liked they were still in the game.

The sending off was huge, (justified)  especially since they were to sub Hogan! Granted lumping the ball into a full forward line that was out muscled by an extra man wasnít the best move, but you canít assassinate the man for one defeat.

ďThey duffed Limerick handy enoughĒ
Lol limerick didnít show up to the second half, shot 15 wides and it still took a controversial decision about the 65 for KK to get past them.
He has only beat a sheedy team in a final once and needed a dodgy penalty to do it.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 11:48:52 PM by north_antrim_hound »

seafoid

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #245 on: August 21, 2019, 09:09:54 AM »
You need more than luck to win an all Ireland.
KK were lucky that Lee Chin missed a free back in June and got another bit in the semi final.
They had to score a goal in the third quarter and kick on but they couldn't.
 
Lookit

Milltown Row2

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #246 on: August 21, 2019, 01:05:36 PM »
Would you listen to yas! We are talking about Cody, his teams have out performed the Tipps, Corks, Limericks Waterfords since he took over!

They duffed Limerick handy enough and while the first half they didnít finish as strong as they would have liked they were still in the game.

The sending off was huge, (justified)  especially since they were to sub Hogan! Granted lumping the ball into a full forward line that was out muscled by an extra man wasnít the best move, but you canít assassinate the man for one defeat.

ďThey duffed Limerick handy enoughĒ
Lol limerick didnít show up to the second half, shot 15 wides and it still took a controversial decision about the 65 for KK to get past them.
He has only beat a sheedy team in a final once and needed a dodgy penalty to do it.

One could argue that Kilkenny didnt allow Limerick to have tap overs and the pressure put on the Limerick lads to shot resulted in 15 wides. Controversial or not, Kikenny wee by far the better team on the day and didnt look like losing.

Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

north_antrim_hound

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #247 on: August 21, 2019, 01:50:25 PM »
Would you listen to yas! We are talking about Cody, his teams have out performed the Tipps, Corks, Limericks Waterfords since he took over!

They duffed Limerick handy enough and while the first half they didnít finish as strong as they would have liked they were still in the game.

The sending off was huge, (justified)  especially since they were to sub Hogan! Granted lumping the ball into a full forward line that was out muscled by an extra man wasnít the best move, but you canít assassinate the man for one defeat.

ďThey duffed Limerick handy enoughĒ
Lol limerick didnít show up to the second half, shot 15 wides and it still took a controversial decision about the 65 for KK to get past them.
He has only beat a sheedy team in a final once and needed a dodgy penalty to do it.

One could argue that Kilkenny didnt allow Limerick to have tap overs and the pressure put on the Limerick lads to shot resulted in 15 wides. Controversial or not, Kikenny wee by far the better team on the day and didnt look like losing.

Did you watch the match, the main talking points about the match was the wides when they werenít under pressure
Limerick are the best team in the  Country and blew it in the semi against a very average KK side that had been beaten twice this year already.
Cody gets a lot of credit for managing the best crop of players that ever lifted hurls. Now without embarrassing resources he maybe showing us heís maybe not the genius the national press portray him to be.
When tipps forwards ripped them apart in 2016 he left his FB line exposed and did nothing for the whole match.
When His team was lobbing aimless ball on top of Cahal Barret and the mahers he did nothing again.
All managers and players are subjected to scrutiny when it goes wrong on here why should he be any different.
This thread isnít called ď letís all nut hug KilkennyĒ is it

Milltown Row2

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #248 on: August 21, 2019, 02:04:44 PM »
Would you listen to yas! We are talking about Cody, his teams have out performed the Tipps, Corks, Limericks Waterfords since he took over!

They duffed Limerick handy enough and while the first half they didnít finish as strong as they would have liked they were still in the game.

The sending off was huge, (justified)  especially since they were to sub Hogan! Granted lumping the ball into a full forward line that was out muscled by an extra man wasnít the best move, but you canít assassinate the man for one defeat.

ďThey duffed Limerick handy enoughĒ
Lol limerick didnít show up to the second half, shot 15 wides and it still took a controversial decision about the 65 for KK to get past them.
He has only beat a sheedy team in a final once and needed a dodgy penalty to do it.

One could argue that Kilkenny didnt allow Limerick to have tap overs and the pressure put on the Limerick lads to shot resulted in 15 wides. Controversial or not, Kikenny wee by far the better team on the day and didnt look like losing.

Did you watch the match, the main talking points about the match was the wides when they werenít under pressure
Limerick are the best team in the  Country and blew it in the semi against a very average KK side that had been beaten twice this year already.
Cody gets a lot of credit for managing the best crop of players that ever lifted hurls. Now without embarrassing resources he maybe showing us heís maybe not the genius the national press portray him to be.
When tipps forwards ripped them apart in 2016 he left his FB line exposed and did nothing for the whole match.
When His team was lobbing aimless ball on top of Cahal Barret and the mahers he did nothing again.
All managers and players are subjected to scrutiny when it goes wrong on here why should he be any different.
This thread isnít called ď letís all nut hug KilkennyĒ is it

Its not and I'm in agreemnet that Hogan should have been sent off and that Tipp started to look hungry leading up to the sending off and if Kilkenny hadn't changed their match ups in the second half they'd have been in trouble.

I also mentioned lumbing balls into the forward line was wrong.. I didnt say the Cat's were hard done by but I'll not be judging a mans career on this match, I'm not saying thats what people are doing but it comes across slightly that he was devoid of ideas, he was playing with what he had, I'd say injuries didnt help and not performing on the day (second half mainly) resulted in a poor performance from all involved. His players need to take some of the blame here also.
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

north_antrim_hound

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #249 on: August 21, 2019, 02:22:19 PM »
What was wrong with saying Buckley is struggling on Mc grath and Connor Browne had done a great job on Lynch in the semis but no he left Buckley who is just back from injury on Noel Mc Grath who continued to deliver in the balls that did all the damage.
Get on top in midfield and work the ball through the lines like the first half when they got fouled for all those frees.
Ok a clown like me needs the benefit of hindsight but heís supposed to be the dogs danglys when it comes to reading the game in real time.
Maybe Iím giving him loads because heís been very ungracious about the referee and blaming him when itís was hogan who blew it. He wasnít whining as much when Tommy Dunne got the line a few years back or when kirwan gave them a soft penalty.
If every call ( 65 at the death )was made right in the semi sure they might not be there

Milltown Row2

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #250 on: August 21, 2019, 05:15:50 PM »
What was wrong with saying Buckley is struggling on Mc grath and Connor Browne had done a great job on Lynch in the semis but no he left Buckley who is just back from injury on Noel Mc Grath who continued to deliver in the balls that did all the damage.
Get on top in midfield and work the ball through the lines like the first half when they got fouled for all those frees.
Ok a clown like me needs the benefit of hindsight but heís supposed to be the dogs danglys when it comes to reading the game in real time.
Maybe Iím giving him loads because heís been very ungracious about the referee and blaming him when itís was hogan who blew it. He wasnít whining as much when Tommy Dunne got the line a few years back or when kirwan gave them a soft penalty.
If every call ( 65 at the death )was made right in the semi sure they might not be there

He's very hard on things relating to 'his' team, very Fergie like in a way, he's plenty of faults but in real time on big occasions (and he's seen plenty) you can only do so much from the line. As a manager, you feel that in games and I'm only taking about club games, can you imagine trying to reassemble your team after losing a player in the big match? 

My concern was that he'd all of halftime to fix it and his plan didnt pay off! His leadership and track record speaks for itself and I'll not be too hard on him, plenty can't wait to see the back of him, I wonder how they talk about him in Kilkenny?
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

gallsman

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #251 on: August 21, 2019, 10:04:09 PM »

09 Tipp could have and should have beaten Kk,in 14 they were millmetres from beating them

In those 3 finals that they have lost ,Tipp have beaten them by a cumulative total of 31 points.

Ten years later, are people still really trying to push this myth?

Have seen a lot of guff proclaiming tipp the team of the decade on Twitter since Sunday. Since "this" Tipp team emerged in '09 they've had, by my count, 8 championship meetings with 2014 counting as one meeting. It's 5-3 to KK with 3 all Irelands each, an almighty drubbing in the 2012 semi for KK included. Kk have also beaten then in four League finals in that period, with Tipp failing to win a single League title. Does anyone who is capable of ignoring recency bias actually think Tipp are the team of the decade?!

"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #252 on: August 22, 2019, 08:58:21 AM »
I always discount semi finals

They are there to be won or lost
They often have no reflection on a final

johnnycool

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #253 on: August 22, 2019, 09:29:28 AM »

09 Tipp could have and should have beaten Kk,in 14 they were millmetres from beating them

In those 3 finals that they have lost ,Tipp have beaten them by a cumulative total of 31 points.

Ten years later, are people still really trying to push this myth?

Have seen a lot of guff proclaiming tipp the team of the decade on Twitter since Sunday. Since "this" Tipp team emerged in '09 they've had, by my count, 8 championship meetings with 2014 counting as one meeting. It's 5-3 to KK with 3 all Irelands each, an almighty drubbing in the 2012 semi for KK included. Kk have also beaten then in four League finals in that period, with Tipp failing to win a single League title. Does anyone who is capable of ignoring recency bias actually think Tipp are the team of the decade?!

Kilkenny still lifted 4 AI's in this decade to 3 for Tipp, so it's KK for me even if it was the earlier part of the decade and not as fresh in peoples minds.

Cody has managed KK to 11 AI's, that will need be achieved again, but as someone alluded to he also like Fergie may be outstaying his welcome and like Fergie may have stayed for one last horrah (Fergie managed his) and failed.

The style of hurling has changed, but at times you think Kilkenny are still sticking with the tried and tested, outwork and overpower your opponent, force the errors and punish them on the scoreboard.

Not a lot wrong with that, but when some team competes and betters you in the physicality stakes, nullifies your best players you need something more than putting TJ, Walter and Fennelly under a high ball and hope for the best.
It smacks of lack of trust in the young guns and yes, they're not Henry Shefflins, Eddie Brennans or Eoin Larkins, but at least play ball in that suits their skillset.

I can see Paul Murphy hang up the boots, there's a year or two left in TJ Reid and probably Fennelly. Wally needs to become a leader and failed miserably at that when out caught two or three times by Heffernan and the Mahers in the second half. He failed to stand up.  Buckley is a fine hurler but the long injury spell affected him badly and he should be a more formidable player next year.
Hogan, I'm not so sure about. Yes, terrible way for him to go out but I really can't see Cody (If he goes another year) doing sentiment as you get the impression that Cody doesn't totally buy into him now.

Big Lawlor at fullback is a find all the same and the much maligned Joey Holden had a stormer of a year.
They may have rode their luck to get to an AI final, but Kilkenny will never be too far away.


imtommygunn

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Re: Kilkenny
« Reply #254 on: August 22, 2019, 09:57:37 AM »
Jc Ferguson won the league in his last year with a poor squad, imo if kk had won Sunday it would have been maybe his greatest victory in a similar vein. Sundayís team has nowhere near the ability of his winning teams and on paper should have been beat out the gate by limerick.

I also think it is a genuinely held belief that hogan shouldnít have been sent off rather than an excuse. Itís wrong but at least genuine...