IRISH NORTHERNERS AND SOUTHERNERS

[BennyCake]

I would describe myself now as "Northern Irish".It is unique and has no relation to Britain whatsoever,and reflects the reality of a part of Ireland that has been physically and largely culturally separate,and is drifting further and further apart in this respect,from the rest of the island for nearly a century.

I have no longer any sovereign aspirations to belong to a state that files me under its foreign affairs dept,and less and less affinity with the general atheism,greed,unionist British empathy,and boorishness of our hitherto southern brethren.In short I believe a United Ireland would be disastrous currently for Northern nationalists,who are not understood by Dublin and largely pigeon holed down there with Sinn Fein who are reviled.

If Russia invaded, and took over the county of Armagh and incorporated the county as part of Russia, would you call yourself a Russian?

You seem to be pigeon holing yourself because of a shower of bastards in UK/Irish governments and media not understanding or caring about you.

[Main Street]

I'm heartened that many here still feed Tony the poor troll, even though he is what he is and has been bringing up the same opinions already flogged to death in a hundred other threads That indeed is true charity.

[T Fearon]

I am facing up to reality which is neither London nor Dublin regards as as "their" people and at this stage never will.What therefore is the point of striving for some utopian scenario when it is not wanted by any significant section of people in the UK or rest of Ireland?

[MoChara]

What is wrong with being called "Northern Irish?" It is merely an accurate reflection of reality.I wish more people in the North identified themselves as Northern Irish as opposed to the ridiculous British or Irish titles

Northern Irish to me = British

Is there any term (derogatory or otherwise) for someone born of Unionist/Loyalist stock who identifies themselves more as Irish?

I am thinking of the opposite of West Brit for example.

Paisley had no problem describing himself as Irish he felt it was the same as being Scottish and British though

[foxcommander]

"Perhaps such hostile reactions amount to victim-blaming as a means of deflecting from southern feelings of semi-responsibility, failure (to create a 32-county republic) or guilt (over partition and the abandonment of northerners)."

Pretty much captures it. The TD in question was voted in even after her comments. Tells you all you need to know about the southern attitude.

[Beffs]

"Perhaps such hostile reactions amount to victim-blaming as a means of deflecting from southern feelings of semi-responsibility, failure (to create a 32-county republic) or guilt (over partition and the abandonment of northerners)."

Pretty much captures it. The TD in question was voted in even after her comments. Tells you all you need to know about the southern attitude.

So by that logic, every time Peter Robinson puts his foot in his mouth, it is indicative of the "attitude" of every single person in the 6 counties? Nice one ! 

[foxcommander]

"Perhaps such hostile reactions amount to victim-blaming as a means of deflecting from southern feelings of semi-responsibility, failure (to create a 32-county republic) or guilt (over partition and the abandonment of northerners)."

Pretty much captures it. The TD in question was voted in even after her comments. Tells you all you need to know about the southern attitude.

So by that logic, every time Peter Robinson puts his foot in his mouth, it is indicative of the "attitude" of every single person in the 6 counties? Nice one ! 

I didn't hear of anyone in the FG party correcting her. Maybe you can let me know who did.

[Beffs]

So what? How often does PR's party pull him up on everything he says?

Gerry Adams made some pretty idiotic comments during the recent election on economic matters. They made him look a right twit. Did his party make a song and dance about them? Did they draw even more attention to them, in their mad rush to repudiate them? Like hell they did. They just ignored them and hoped the fuss would die down in time. As do all political parties, when one of their own does or says something incredibly thick.

Taking one stupid comment of one politician, as being indicative of what 4 million people think, is very narrow minded.

[muppet]

So what? How often does PR's party pull him up on everything he says?

Gerry Adams made some pretty idiotic comments during the recent election on economic matters. They made him look a right twit. Did his party make a song and dance about them? Did they draw even more attention to them, in their mad rush to repudiate them? Like hell they did. They just ignored them and hoped the fuss would die down in time. As do all political parties, when one of their own does or says something incredibly thick.

Taking one stupid comment of one politician, as being indicative of what 4 million people think, is very narrow minded.

Gerry Adams trampolines naked with his dog and has two gay teddies. I know this because he told us on twitter.

[foxcommander]

So what? How often does PR's party pull him up on everything he says?

Gerry Adams made some pretty idiotic comments during the recent election on economic matters. They made him look a right twit. Did his party make a song and dance about them? Did they draw even more attention to them, in their mad rush to repudiate them? Like hell they did. They just ignored them and hoped the fuss would die down in time. As do all political parties, when one of their own does or says something incredibly thick.

Taking one stupid comment of one politician, as being indicative of what 4 million people think, is very narrow minded.

I searched the web for Ms Doherty's apology and didn't find one. If, as you say, it was just a stupid comment she would have retracted it or someone from her party would have pulled her up on it.

but they didn't.

Surely if they wanted to distance themselves from her remarks they had ample opportunity to do so and let the pubic know this wasn't a FG party view. Or was that their view just for electioneering purposes?

[Beffs]

So what? How often does PR's party pull him up on everything he says?

Gerry Adams made some pretty idiotic comments during the recent election on economic matters. They made him look a right twit. Did his party make a song and dance about them? Did they draw even more attention to them, in their mad rush to repudiate them? Like hell they did. They just ignored them and hoped the fuss would die down in time. As do all political parties, when one of their own does or says something incredibly thick.

Taking one stupid comment of one politician, as being indicative of what 4 million people think, is very narrow minded.

I searched the web for Ms Doherty's apology and didn't find one. If, as you say, it was just a stupid comment she would have retracted it or someone from her party would have pulled her up on it.

but they didn't.

Surely if they wanted to distance themselves from her remarks they had ample opportunity to do so and let the pubic know this wasn't a FG party view. Or was that their view just for electioneering purposes?

Did you even read my post?

When one of their own fcuks up, political parties don't make a song and dance about it and issue public statements and apologies and retractions, which only draws more attention to it. If someone else makes a fuss about it, or it becomes a big deal in the media, yeah, then they'll do something to save face. But until that happens, they will ignore it and hope everyone else does too. It's politics 101.

Whether you agree with that or not, it still doesn't mean that one ignorant comment from a relatively low ranking politician, mirrors the opinions of 4 million people.

[foxcommander]

So what? How often does PR's party pull him up on everything he says?

Gerry Adams made some pretty idiotic comments during the recent election on economic matters. They made him look a right twit. Did his party make a song and dance about them? Did they draw even more attention to them, in their mad rush to repudiate them? Like hell they did. They just ignored them and hoped the fuss would die down in time. As do all political parties, when one of their own does or says something incredibly thick.

Taking one stupid comment of one politician, as being indicative of what 4 million people think, is very narrow minded.

I searched the web for Ms Doherty's apology and didn't find one. If, as you say, it was just a stupid comment she would have retracted it or someone from her party would have pulled her up on it.

but they didn't.

Surely if they wanted to distance themselves from her remarks they had ample opportunity to do so and let the pubic know this wasn't a FG party view. Or was that their view just for electioneering purposes?

Did you even read my post?

When one of their own fcuks up, political parties don't make a song and dance about it and issue public statements and apologies and retractions, which only draws more attention to it. If someone else makes a fuss about it, or it becomes a big deal in the media, yeah, then they'll do something to save face. But until that happens, they will ignore it and hope everyone else does too. It's politics 101.

Whether you agree with that or not, it still doesn't mean that one ignorant comment from a relatively low ranking politician is reflective of the opinions of 4 million people.

It was a little bit more of a screw up than normal, especially since it shows your party's attitude towards the people in the 6 counties.
Ms Doherty doesn't strike me as intelligent enough to come up with this off her own bat so there's a FG spindoctor who's been authorised to feed her a few lines. To me that means it's the party viewpoint towards the people in the 6. And people still vote FG. What does that tell you.

[Beffs]

FG are not my party. They have never (in my life time) been able to put together a majority government.  So what does that tell you about their being representative of the views of 4 million people, either now or over the life time of the state?

Ok, so some looper comes out with an idiotic statement. No one else in the party has come out and agreed with her. She was not promoted for saying it. No one defected to her side from other parties, because of her opinions on the matter....the way that some other politicians did with Lucinda Creighton. She is not the figure head of a particular way of thinking about the north.

But she is still representative of the feelings of 4 million people? I'm done talking about this now, as you seem to be unable to grasp the basic lack of logic in your argument.

[MoChara]

FG are not my party. They have never (in my life time) been able to put together a majority government.  So what does that tell you about their being representative of the views of 4 million people, either now or over the life time of the state?

Ok, so some looper comes out with an idiotic statement. No one else in the party has come out and agreed with her. She was not promoted for saying it. No one defected to her side from other parties, because of her opinions on the matter....the way that some other politicians did with Lucinda Creighton. She is not the figure head of a particular way of thinking about the north.

But she is still representative of the feelings of 4 million people? I'm done talking about this now, as you seem to be unable to grasp the basic lack of logic in your argument.

I think the writer was more illustrating that there is some people that think that way down South rather than its the majority viewpoint. The First paragraph before mentioning Doherty explains that its a subsection of Southern people.

Unfortunately, when experiences of the nationalist community are articulated to certain other southerners – especially those of a partitionist persuasion – this absence of experience leads them to jump to the other extreme of hesitancy and into the realm of bellicose anti-empathy.

Fine Gael TD Regina Doherty's insensitive comments before the recent general election in the south were a perfect example of this phenomenon. She blindly and sanctimoniously assumed that the suffering of the nationalist community and republicans was "all brought on by [their] own actions", as if nationalist trouble-making was the primary source or cause of the conflict.

Perhaps such hostile reactions amount to victim-blaming as a means of deflecting from southern feelings of semi-responsibility, failure (to create a 32-county republic) or guilt (over partition and the abandonment of northerners).

[Hound]

To me that means it's the party viewpoint towards the people in the 6. And people still vote FG. What does that tell you.

Foxy, did you see and hear all the socialist and liberal statements made by Sinn Fein during the campaign?
The Loony Left. And people still voted for them!

What does that tell you about them and the people who voted for them?
How does the right-wing part of Sinn Fein feel about this? Are they just instructed to keep the head down?