Something worth commemorating. Armagh V Donegal Sat 23rd April Whitecross.

[T Fearon]

That renders his argument even more redundant as the troubles didn't end until 1994.Also plenty of underage All Irelands came North between 1969 and 1994. The argument that the troubles prevented Northern teams from winning Sam is absolutely ridiculous.

[ck]

All this hype for a challenge game? In which neither team will show their hand ahead of Championship

[general_lee]

All this hype for a challenge game? In which neither team will show their hand ahead of Championship

Well i think its a nice change to have a football match to mark the anniversary rather than the usual fayre.

[T Fearon]

The match is almost an irrelevancy,the large crowd gathering to remember one of the worst atrocities of the troubles,is really what it's all about.

[ck]

Yeah I get that and fair enough.

I'd guess the game itself will be a tame enough

[seafoid]

He is not right.If he was outstanding Northern footballers like Frank Mc Guigan,Paddy Moriarity,Peter Mc Ginnity,Greg Blaney,Gerry Mc Elhinney and dozens more wouldn't have emerged during the troubles.At least Connacht hadn't the troubles to blame for Sam's 32 year absence.Great Dublin,Kerry and Meath teams largely ensured Sam stayed away from the North.The troubles were raging on when Down and Derry won titles in 1991 and 1993,the argument is nonsensical.

Armagh had a super team in 77 but only got to one final.
The 6 counties were traumatised until at least the mid 50s by all the apartheid of the prod state. Cavan mopped up ulsters as a result . Down blazed out in the 60s but the troubles put an end to that energy.
If Kerry had descended into political nihilism and paramilitary savagery it would have won nothing either.

Ulster should have as many all Irelands as Leinster given the passion and the setup but politics meant it did not develop as Leinster did.

Connacht is the poor relation and Mayo have the psychological thing. I don't think comparisons with Connacht are relevant.  It is crazy that it took Tyrone until 2003 to win Sam. The county has 40 all stars now which is a sign of what a powerhouse it is.

[seafoid]

He is not right......,.The troubles were raging on when Down and Derry won titles in 1991 and 1993,the argument is nonsensical.

Only problem is Seafóid opened his piece with " between 1969 and 1990"

Tony never let's facts get in the way of his ráiméis.

[seafoid]

When did the Brits cop on and start investing in sport in nationalist areas?

[T Fearon]

The lack of success of Northern teams up to the 60s when Down (ironically inspired by a senior government official of the "apartheid" state,Maurice Hayes) made the breakthrough,is attributable to Cavan's General dominance which went on for decades) Armagh did reach the All Ireland Final in 1953 and a missed penalty arguably cost them a first Sam.I remember as late as 1977 when Armagh defeated Cavan (who hadn't won Ulster for eight long years) in the first round of Ulster,the Armagh Board Chairman saying that he didn't care if Armagh won another match all year,inferring they've beaten mighty Cavan!

From 1976 to 1996 no Ulster County could win successive Ulster titles,never mind Sam as the dog eat dog nature of the Ulster Championship took its toll.

It is laughable to suggest that the troubles were to blame for lack of All Ireland success and it also highlights once again the ignorance of Northern affairs by those in the South to even make such a ridiculous suggestion.

Lads life went on as normal for the most part, during the troubles,ironically working class Catholics thrived through  access to free grammar education,and people from all communities here had success (the Quinns and Haugheys built huge business empires), and not least in the sporting field,with Mary Peters winning Olympic Gold,Barry Mc Guigan a taig from Monaghan,moved up to the black hole of Bangor to live and train and become World Champion,Hughie Russell won Olympic bronze in boxing in Moscow,John Watson gave formula one a good rattle,and countless underage GAA titles came North,and Antrim reached an All Ireland Senior Hurling Final even!

[T Fearon]

Incidentally Donegal won a tame game tonight by 1-11 to 0-5, but there was a sizeable crowd and an atmosphere which had an ideal mix of poignancy and pride,and a fitting memorial to the deceased and their surviving relatives,and a match programme that would put many league and Championship programmes to shame.

[general_lee]

It is laughable to suggest that the troubles were to blame for lack of All Ireland success and it also highlights once again the ignorance of Northern affairs by those in the South to even make such a ridiculous suggestion.

There is certainly some merit in the suggestion and your revisionism would make some of your DUP heroes blush. Being a member of the GAA could have got you shot, it did for certain unfortunate individuals and plenty of harrasment to go with it. Only a week or so ago a GAA club suffered an arson attack in Co tyrone. To think " life went on as normal for the most part" is well off the mark. Life during the troubles was not normal!

[seafoid]

The lack of success of Northern teams up to the 60s when Down (ironically inspired by a senior government official of the "apartheid" state,Maurice Hayes) made the breakthrough,is attributable to Cavan's General dominance which went on for decades) Armagh did reach the All Ireland Final in 1953 and a missed penalty arguably cost them a first Sam.I remember as late as 1977 when Armagh defeated Cavan (who hadn't won Ulster for eight long years) in the first round of Ulster,the Armagh Board Chairman saying that he didn't care if Armagh won another match all year,inferring they've beaten mighty Cavan!

From 1976 to 1996 no Ulster County could win successive Ulster titles,never mind Sam as the dog eat dog nature of the Ulster Championship took its toll.

It is laughable to suggest that the troubles were to blame for lack of All Ireland success and it also highlights once again the ignorance of Northern affairs by those in the South to even make such a ridiculous suggestion.

Lads life went on as normal for the most part, during the troubles,ironically working class Catholics thrived through  access to free grammar education,and people from all communities here had success (the Quinns and Haugheys built huge business empires), and not least in the sporting field,with Mary Peters winning Olympic Gold,Barry Mc Guigan a taig from Monaghan,moved up to the black hole of Bangor to live and train and become World Champion,Hughie Russell won Olympic bronze in boxing in Moscow,John Watson gave formula one a good rattle,and countless underage GAA titles came North,and Antrim reached an All Ireland Senior Hurling Final even!

Cavan would never have dominated in a 32 county Ireland.  Partition set Armagh back at least 60 years. The troubles continued the theme.

[T Fearon]

Life was as normal as possible,and certainly not suffocating as we learned to live with what was happening and for the most part the direct impact was minimal (I write this as one who lost four  cousins to random sectarian attacks).

But people progressed and achieved and were not generally or significantly held back by the troubles,and I would not count it as a factor in Ulster's lack of success on the All Ireland front.

Indeed in my very early years,before the troubles,even in Portadown,there was integrated housing,working and socialising together,and if anything the troubles was the cause of polarisation and tribal division,leading to segregated housing (among the lower classes of course, the rich on both sides continued to collaborate in making money and mixing in the golf clubs) etc.

[seafoid]

Life was as normal as possible,and certainly not suffocating as we learned to live with what was happening and for the most part the direct impact was minimal (I write this as one who lost four  cousins to random sectarian attacks).

But people progressed and achieved and were not generally or significantly held back by the troubles,and I would not count it as a factor in Ulster's lack of success on the All Ireland front.

Indeed in my very early years,before the troubles,even in Portadown,there was integrated housing,working and socialising together,and if anything the troubles was the cause of polarisation and tribal division,leading to segregated housing (among the lower classes of course, the rich on both sides continued to collaborate in making money and mixing in the golf clubs) etc.

Most of the people who died were working class. Most of the players on gaa teams in the 70s and 80s were not accountants

[T Fearon]

Really? It seemed to me that lads who played in the McRory Cup (grammar schools) came to the attention of county minor selectors a lot quicker than vocational school types,and in those days if you didn't appear firstly at underage level you had practically no chance of breaking into a county senior side.

Also I found that those with working class occupations experienced rapid social and professional mobility once they made the county team,many a factory worker soon found himself in a pin stripe suit and company car trying to gain sales.

Seafoid in the darkest days,my own club in Portadown, in the mid 70s in the middle of a notorious sectarian murder triangle,moved from Division 4 to Division 1 of the Armagh County Leagues in successive years,as a result of the appointment of a manager with savvy,who motivated and promoted young talent.

Your argument simply doesn't stack up.