Pick your team> Kinahans or Hutches ?

[NAG1]

What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

No country's pro boxing seems to be controlled by any Sports Council otherwise there wouldnt even be a question like arose over one of Pacmans fights about the drug testing etc it would be mandatory.

Also it does seem to attract the scummiest of elements - Tyson Fury being a good example.

[AZOffaly]

So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

OK, but it's harder to get cannabis than to get alcohol. Not difficult, but certainly not as easy. If that was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

I'm no scientist, nor am I an expert on drugs. I've never smoked pot, nor have I the inclination to do so. I do drink, and I used to smoke cigarettes years ago. I just don't think we can be sure that exposing more people to cannabis would *not* lead to more of them trying other drugs later on. Even if it's not a direct cause and effect, and is more along the lines of 'ah sure Cannabis did me no harm, an auld line of coke isn't going to hurt me'.

I'm not sure I understand your argument, AZ, unless you're suggesting that nicotine and alcohol are not drugs?

If that [cannabis] was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

If cannabis was made legal how would its legal status make people more likely to be curious about cocaine any more than using legal drugs like nicotine and alcohol and caffeine makes them more curious about cocaine? Especially since nicotine and alcohol are far more powerful drugs than cannabis.

I suppose what I'm saying is that recreational drug use, in the form of cannabis, is certainly seen as 'different' to alcohol and nicotine. Cannabis would be seen in a similar light as cocaine, but cocaine would be seen as a bit more edgy. Heroin then is probably a different animal.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that if we normalise cannabis, would we be opening up an avenue for more people to be interested in the edgier drugs like cocaine and LSD.

I'm probably talking bullshite, and am happy to admit that, but I would be uneasy at best without some sort of certitude that you are not opening Pandora's box, probably because I don't understand it.

[Hardy]

What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

No country's pro boxing seems to be controlled by any Sports Council otherwise there wouldnt even be a question like arose over one of Pacmans fights about the drug testing etc it would be mandatory.

Also it does seem to attract the scummiest of elements - Tyson Fury being a good example.

Indeed. But I understand that pro boxing events have to be licensed. Who licenses Irish events and what is the legal status of the license? There surely has to be some official, state level oversight if there's licensing involved?

[Puckoon]

I suppose what I'm saying is that recreational drug use, in the form of cannabis, is certainly seen as 'different' to alcohol and nicotine. Cannabis would be seen in a similar light as cocaine, but cocaine would be seen as a bit more edgy. Heroin then is probably a different animal.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that if we normalise cannabis, would we be opening up an avenue for more people to be interested in the edgier drugs like cocaine and LSD.

I wouldn't say the questions are unreasonable - but they don't have the greatest of foundations, outside of anecdote, ignorance, and fear.

I think that cannabis use is viewed by many as "different" to nicotine and alcohol. That is a shame in my opinion and its silly that it is viewed that way in terms of a check box on one side of the law or the other. I disagree that Cannabis would be seen in a similar light to cocaine - but I can understand that there are folks who would think that way. If one was found to be in possession of Marajuana for recreational use Vs a gram of coke - I know which would carry more severe consequences (in the western US states at least). If I failed a drug test at work for Marajuana Vs a drug test for cocaine - the penalty would be much more harsh for the latter.

[Franko]

I suppose disposable income is highly correlated to drug use.

I'd bet that drug addiction and disposable income are inversely correlated.

[charlieTully]

The perception that going from drink to cocaine is not a natural sounding gateway, whereas cannabis to cocaine is a more natural 'sounding' escalation.

imo, these days people are more likely to try cocaine whilst under the influence of booze, I know a fair few folk who like a line of coke but wouldn't dream of smoking joints. They probably wouldn't touch coke either except when they are drunk. Its the new drugs that are more worrying, I see the mess they cause through my work, the legal highs, plant food etc. it would scare the shite out ya the amount of stuff kids are exposed to these days. Not that I am condoning the use of coke or anything.

[red hander]

As per usual, Kenny's making himself look like a total twat over the whole affair.

He does that when he gets up the morning.

Before deciding what dress to put on...

[gallsman]

The dad of the fella who was weighing in at the time, Jamie Kavanagh, was shot dead in Spain a few years ago. Dunno what side he's on.

Don't think it's so much a boxing connection as some of the lads on the boxing scene happen to be connected.

[tyssam5]

The only reason the "next drug" concept exists is because all these supposedly progressively linked drugs have in common is that they're illegal. There is no reason in the world that using cannabis would predispose one to experiment with cocaine or heroin.

Nobody says alcohol use should be criminalised because it exposes a wider user base to the possibility of moving on to nicotine*.

*By far the most deadly drug.

is that true Hardy? Does the 'buzz' not get weaker after a while, and people want to try something else, be that LSD, cocaine or whatever?  This is from the Guardian, and certainly would suggest a link, however tenuous, in that most hard drug users would have experimented with Cannabis first, although obviously not all cannabis users go onto the harder stuff. They do suggest it is unusual for a drug user to jump straight into hard drugs.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/mar/03/is-cannabis-a-gateway-drug

Probably unusual for them to jump to stright to hard drug without first trying masturbation - are those two linked?

[tyssam5]

So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

OK, but it's harder to get cannabis than to get alcohol. Not difficult, but certainly not as easy. If that was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

I'm no scientist, nor am I an expert on drugs. I've never smoked pot, nor have I the inclination to do so. I do drink, and I used to smoke cigarettes years ago. I just don't think we can be sure that exposing more people to cannabis would *not* lead to more of them trying other drugs later on. Even if it's not a direct cause and effect, and is more along the lines of 'ah sure Cannabis did me no harm, an auld line of coke isn't going to hurt me'.

You live in the USA right? Do you really think it is harder for U-21's to get cannabis than alcohol? Ask them.

[tyssam5]

Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Alcohol is the the same drug in pints and shorts. If someone is a regular cannabis user they might move to try different strains for strength or type of effect. You know that the active ingredient in cocaine is different right?

[macdanger2]

I agree with hardy - the "gateway" link is based largely on their illegality.

[seafoid]

What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

No country's pro boxing seems to be controlled by any Sports Council otherwise there wouldnt even be a question like arose over one of Pacmans fights about the drug testing etc it would be mandatory.

Also it does seem to attract the scummiest of elements - Tyson Fury being a good example.

Fury is a traveller and that community is well represented in boxing but has nothing to do with sadistic drug gangs

[passedit]

Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

[king of leon]

Are the guards scared or in cahoots with these gangsters??