The Official 2016 Irish General Election thread

[Rossfan]

Yes FG did the hard work of burdening the working man in order to protect the wealth of influential individuals and increasing DOB's portfolio valuation.

Horsecrap.

But since you are so insightful please tell us what they should have done differently.

These clowns can only moan and of course whinge
His alternative would probably be to rob the Northern Bank or do like Syria did...........

Syria?

SYRIZA
stupid phone!!

[Esmarelda]

I had a look through the Paddy Power odds a week after AZ had done the same exercise.


He came up with the following:

Fine Gael   60.5 (55.5) (including Sean Barrett , the CC)
Fianna Fail   36 (38)
Sinn Fein   23.5 (26.5)
Independents   16
Labour   10
AAA/PAP   4.5 (5.5)
SD   3
Renua   2.5
ULA   1
Green   1 (0)

The odds have changed in a good few constituencies and my adjusted figures are in brackets beside AZ's original ones.

[mikehunt]

or do like Syria did...........

To quote Ross himself - "IQ Challenged"

typing anything except "+1, w**nkers the lot of them" is a challenge for poor ol Rossfan, go easy on him, it's those fat public sector fingers.

[AZOffaly]

I had a look through the Paddy Power odds a week after AZ had done the same exercise.


He came up with the following:

Fine Gael   60.5 (55.5) (including Sean Barrett , the CC)
Fianna Fail   36 (38)
Sinn Fein   23.5 (26.5)
Independents   16
Labour   10
AAA/PAP   4.5 (5.5)
SD   3
Renua   2.5
ULA   1
Green   1 (0)

The odds have changed in a good few constituencies and my adjusted figures are in brackets beside AZ's original ones.

So basically FG losses picked up by SF and FF. Interesting.

[Maguire01]

I had a look through the Paddy Power odds a week after AZ had done the same exercise.


He came up with the following:

Fine Gael   60.5 (55.5) (including Sean Barrett , the CC)
Fianna Fail   36 (38)
Sinn Fein   23.5 (26.5)
Independents   16
Labour   10
AAA/PAP   4.5 (5.5)
SD   3
Renua   2.5
ULA   1
Green   1 (0)

The odds have changed in a good few constituencies and my adjusted figures are in brackets beside AZ's original ones.

So basically FG losses picked up by SF and FF. Interesting.

It's the bookies though, so surely changing based on the money being placed? Otherwise how / why is the SF price going in the opposite direction to the polls?

[Maguire01]

I meant now. As in if Varadker was Fine Gael leader right now, would they be a lot closer to an Overall Majority. If they get 60 seats with Kenny, would they get 75 or so with Varadker? Maybe only have to keep four or 5 independents sweet?

Not a majority, but a good bit closer. Although I imagine he'd still opt for Labour rather than try and keep a handful of independents sweet.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I had a look through the Paddy Power odds a week after AZ had done the same exercise.


He came up with the following:

Fine Gael   60.5 (55.5) (including Sean Barrett , the CC)
Fianna Fail   36 (38)
Sinn Fein   23.5 (26.5)
Independents   16
Labour   10
AAA/PAP   4.5 (5.5)
SD   3
Renua   2.5
ULA   1
Green   1 (0)

The odds have changed in a good few constituencies and my adjusted figures are in brackets beside AZ's original ones.

So basically FG losses picked up by SF and FF. Interesting.

It's the bookies though, so surely changing based on the money being placed? Otherwise how / why is the SF price going in the opposite direction to the polls?

Local polls are tipping them to have very good shouts in seats they weren't expected to have much of a chance in. I'd expect them to crack 30.

[muppet]

I am guessing by the lack of histrionics on here that she didn't ask him if he was ever a member of the IRA. No doubt that would be out of line.

She did, actually. Apparently he wasn't in the IRA.

Regardless, I didn't watch a single minute of any debate as I regard it as nothing more than popcorn for media junkies and party lackies and completely irrelevant to anything in the real world. In fact I am sick of all of the candidates promising crap that most of them will be unable to even seriously propose, never mind deliver on. Mandarins in Ireland, under instruction from the EU, run this country. We saw that very clearly with Patrick Honohan. Politicians are largely irrelevant now.

Muppet, you are too easy on politicians. Mandarins may set policies over the overall envelope of expenditure and this is not a bad thing given how things can go wrong. Politicians can still do much that they choose not to do. The organisation of the HSE, the planning for housing and so on are well within the remit of politicians and they need to get up of their collectives arses and sort these things.

One of the only times politicians stepped way out of the mandarin line (especially European mandarins), was the repeatedly elected FF/PD governments who ran an economy on stamp duty from a rising property market. The vastly inflated egos from being voted in, over and over again, was a major factor in this imho.

Re-electing this government risks sending the wrong message, again, and the inevitable hubris would set in. As for the HSE, that was Harney's (I think) solution to the underwhelming Regional Health Boards. But things got far worse with another layer of administrators to add to the financial black hole. SF are talking about throwing more money at this, which is the last thing it needs. The other parties are only paying lip series to the fiasco but in reality they are carefully steering well clear. Any solution must start by taking on the consultants, but this has never been done to any successful degree. As to why, I am open to explanations.

As for planning, the mandarins have way more influence than most people think. For example, do you know it is national planning policy NOT to provide sufficient parking at new houses in Dublin?

The thinking is we will all use the bus and that our kids will never be able to buy cars because there will be nowhere to park. The 9-5, Monday to Friday mandarins think we should all be able to live with the bus services provided and without cars. The reality is that bin lorries and ambulances can't get in or out of the crowded new estates due to the crazy under-resourcing of parking. And the kids can't afford to move out as they can't get mortgages adding to the car space pressure.

On the last issue alone, I would vote for any politician that promised to use every legislative tool available to him/her to undo this lunacy.

[Maguire01]

Adams won that hands down.

Kenny exposed on cronyism.  Adams nailed him on it.

Martin had a meltdown when Celia Larkin was mentioned and didn't know what to say - nailed on cronyism.

Thought Adams completely bossed it on the housing situation, pointing out the government's role in NAMA. Not only did Adams destroy the 3 other leaders, he utterly destroyed Miriam O'Callaghan on her salary and her fabrications.

Burton was probably the second best on the night as she didn't make as big an idiot of herself as previously.

You would have to be an absolute simpleton to think Martin came out of that at all well, he had the worst showing of all.

Did you watch the same debate? Are you trying to sway the rest of us or do you really believe Adams came out on top? It was clearly Martin, Burton and then Adams/Kenny in either order. Adams answer on the HSE was awful... random figures that made no sense. Pulling up O'Callaghan on her salary did him no favours - she answered him straight and it went nowhere, and made no point. O'Callaghan could really have pushed him harder on how he's recruit doctors when he'd be massively increasing their income tax, so it could have been worse.

Kenny had rehearsed a few lines and anything outside that was poorly handled - not being able to explain why his own income tax proposals are fair - when it should have been fairly simple - was a disaster.

Martin was exposed on cronyism, but in no way did he have a meltdown. In fairness he actually just held his hands up. Adams probably came off best on the cronyism point, but then he's the only one who hasn't been in government.

[Rossfan]

Talking of FF/PD/Builders/Auctioneers/Bankers Coalition - in Reeling in the years 2001- the other14 ( as it was) Finance Ministers in the E U wrote to the GGovernment expressing their concerns at the budgetary policies being followed.
McCreevy appeared then with the usual ignorant arrogant guffaws - "If Europe did the same as us Europe would be better off"

[Maguire01]

Why was he out of line asking her about her salary? She's a state employee who is tasked with a job of moderating a debate so reasons for perceived bias should be disclosed. She was completely out of line in what she said about Danny Morrison though.

The question was not biased.
If she had asked about abortion would she have been asked if she had an abortion?
If she had asked about homelessness would she have been asked if she was homeless.?

She's a state employee tasked with moderating a debate. She had a vested interest in her line of questioning which Adam's wanted disclosed. You have an issue with this, for a bizarre reason.

What was her vested interest? That her or one of her 40 children might end up in a public hospital with shite doctors because all the good ones had left the country because Sf thought they were too rich?

That she is one of the high earners who would be impacted by these taxes. That's a smoking gun of a vested interest that hadn't been disclosed.

Everyone knows she is a high earner - her RTE pay has been in the public domain. She's not pretending to be on the average industrial wage.

She's a citizen of the country, so she'll have an interest in any of the proposals. Should she not have challenged Kenny on his broken promise for free prescriptions, given that she would now have to pay for subscriptions?

Her question was directly relevant to attracting doctors to take up positions in Ireland, and the impact that tax rises would have on that. Questioning O'Callaghan was a diversion.

[armaghniac]

Re-electing this government risks sending the wrong message, again, and the inevitable hubris would set in. As for the HSE, that was Harney's (I think) solution to the underwhelming Regional Health Boards. But things got far worse with another layer of administrators to add to the financial black hole. SF are talking about throwing more money at this, which is the last thing it needs. The other parties are only paying lip series to the fiasco but in reality they are carefully steering well clear. Any solution must start by taking on the consultants, but this has never been done to any successful degree. As to why, I am open to explanations.

If you want "take on" consultants, unions or the like then you need to be organised yourself. There are highly paid consulants in Irish hospitals who would operate on people but who do not do so because the patient isn't ready because of delays in tests, or becuase there is no theatre nurse or whatever. Private hospitals organise the hospital to make maximum use of the most expensive staff, public hospitals do not. Having ensured that these delays do not exist then you can pressure the consultants to do so more, but not before.

As for planning, the mandarins have way more influence than most people think. For example, do you know it is national planning policy NOT to provide sufficient parking at new houses in Dublin?

The thinking is we will all use the bus and that our kids will never be able to buy cars because there will be nowhere to park. The 9-5, Monday to Friday mandarins think we should all be able to live with the bus services provided and without cars. The reality is that bin lorries and ambulances can't get in or out of the crowded new estates due to the crazy under-resourcing of parking. And the kids can't afford to move out as they can't get mortgages adding to the car space pressure.

These policies are under the control of the Minister, but like many things it comes about because of big picture planning issues.

[muppet]

Re-electing this government risks sending the wrong message, again, and the inevitable hubris would set in. As for the HSE, that was Harney's (I think) solution to the underwhelming Regional Health Boards. But things got far worse with another layer of administrators to add to the financial black hole. SF are talking about throwing more money at this, which is the last thing it needs. The other parties are only paying lip series to the fiasco but in reality they are carefully steering well clear. Any solution must start by taking on the consultants, but this has never been done to any successful degree. As to why, I am open to explanations.

If you want "take on" consultants, unions or the like then you need to be organised yourself. There are highly paid consulants in Irish hospitals who would operate on people but who do not do so because the patient isn't ready because of delays in tests, or becuase there is no theatre nurse or whatever. Private hospitals organise the hospital to make maximum use of the most expensive staff, public hospitals do not. Having ensured that these delays do not exist then you can pressure the consultants to do so more, but not before.

As for planning, the mandarins have way more influence than most people think. For example, do you know it is national planning policy NOT to provide sufficient parking at new houses in Dublin?

The thinking is we will all use the bus and that our kids will never be able to buy cars because there will be nowhere to park. The 9-5, Monday to Friday mandarins think we should all be able to live with the bus services provided and without cars. The reality is that bin lorries and ambulances can't get in or out of the crowded new estates due to the crazy under-resourcing of parking. And the kids can't afford to move out as they can't get mortgages adding to the car space pressure.

These policies are under the control of the Minister, but like many things it comes about because of big picture planning issues.

We pay consultants as public employees, while they have their own private businesses and allow them to use public facilities for these businesses. That should end for a start. If they have time to run a private, competing business, then they are not full time employees and should not be paid as such. Imagine Michael O'Leary learning that full time Ryanair pilots had their own businesses, using his planes, in their spare time.

Added to that, the consultants run most of our health facilities, so blaming 'yourself' for not having theatre nurses, or delays in testing, while absolving the consultants, who by now in this conversation are having it everyway, is madness.

As for the 'big picture' planning issue. What the big picture is, is highly debatable. It might appear to come under the minister's remit, but it is the mandarins and the local councils and their planners who implement it. If they want people to use public transport more, Which I have no problem with, they might start by providing better public transport and not just for 9 -5 workers, rather than choking new estates with a lack of parking.

[Mayo4Sam]

I don't think FG have ever been in back-to-back governments; you'd have thought that this should have been a shoo-in for them, as there's no realistic alternative.  We could have another election before summer.

I think is almost a definite, I'd expect three in 2016

Is this because you think FG are great or alternative is rubbish. I watched some of the debate last night found it very boring to be honest. Where has charm and charisma gone to in Irish politics?

Because I don't think there'll be an overall majority coming anytime soon.

I think FG and Labour will form a minority government which can only last so long

[armaghniac]

We pay consultants as public employees, while they have their own private businesses and allow them to use public facilities for these businesses. That should end for a start. If they have time to run a private, competing business, then they are not full time employees and should not be paid as such. Imagine Michael O'Leary learning that full time Ryanair pilots had their own businesses, using his planes, in their spare time.

Consultants have different contracts, and they presumably can do what the contract says they can do.

Added to that, the consultants run most of our health facilities, so blaming 'yourself' for not having theatre nurses, or delays in testing, while absolving the consultants, who by now in this conversation are having it everyway, is madness.

I don't believe that consultants schedule staff in testing labs and the like, although I will stand corrected if someone with real information on the matter comes along.

As for the 'big picture' planning issue. What the big picture is, is highly debatable. It might appear to come under the minister's remit, but it is the mandarins and the local councils and their planners who implement it. If they want people to use public transport more, Which I have no problem with, they might start by providing better public transport and not just for 9 -5 workers, rather than choking new estates with a lack of parking.

But this is exactly the problem, the people who set up buslanes or control parking have no role in running buses and nobody coordinates these things. Coordination policies need to come from government.