(Spoilers)Making a Murderer - for those who have watched all 10

[OakLeaf]

Speculation like this does nobody any good whatsoever.

True, but speculation like this is what you get when no one really knows what happened (except for the guilty parties). 

[leenie]

Making a Murderer defence lawyer Dean Strang will appear on the Ray D'Arcy Show on Saturday night.

Might actually make it once of and watch Ray

[Mayo4Sam]

Great television but even from the cover picture you knew which side this doc was falling on. Constantly showing Avery as a kid is a very clever way of getting the viewer on side, a kid could never do this. Like the news at the time showing Avery in the stripy criminal outfit, why would he wear that if he wasn't a criminal.

Some things which i found strange:

• The judge seemed to be saying that he had escalated from his previous rape
• Why were the FBI testing the blood?
• Lenny and O'Kelly seemed way too invested in a guilty verdict, crying FFS
• How was there no retrial for Dassey
• The FBI saying that he could be certain about the three other blood splatters!
• The cop, who disappeared after the first two episodes, can't remember his name, who said in court that he didn't believe Avery was innocent of the rape, why does the judge let that go?
• The ex-boyfriend who was hassling her, never even treated as a suspect???
• Lenks changing of his story and times to suit the case, it was outrageous but not seized upon

[finbar o tool]

Bit late to the party but what a show!
I am absolutely flabbergasted that Avery and Dassey were convicted. How can anyone say "Beyond any reasonable doubt" these guys are guilty!! I think they are 100% innocent.
My mouth fell open numerous times about how bad the states case was and the conduct of the state lawyers and police. They rarely followed protocol, A lack of any real evidence and quite a bit of evidence that points to framing and corruption.
To say Brendan Dassy is a slow learner is a complete understatement, it would be my guess he is has ASD, and the way he was treated...disgusting.
at the very least, they deserve a retrial. The courts wont even review their cases.
W.T.F

[Syferus]

Bit late to the party but what a show!
I am absolutely flabbergasted that Avery and Dassey were convicted. How can anyone say "Beyond any reasonable doubt" these guys are guilty!! I think they are 100% innocent.
My mouth fell open numerous times about how bad the states case was and the conduct of the state lawyers and police. They rarely followed protocol, A lack of any real evidence and quite a bit of evidence that points to framing and corruption.
To say Brendan Dassy is a slow learner is a complete understatement, it would be my guess he is has ASD, and the way he was treated...disgusting.
at the very least, they deserve a retrial. The courts wont even review their cases.
W.T.F

Hopefully the publicity will fund enough donations so they can appeal to the slightly-less kangaroo courts.

Dassey's first appeal lawyer knew is stuff and the fact that appeal was rejected might be the biggest red flag pointing to these small town court systems' insituationalised corruption.

[omagh_gael]

Is it not the case that a retrial will only take place if new evidence becomes known. The last episode showed them appealing right up to the supreme court on the score that the investigation was a f**k up. So all (obvious dodgy activity by police/prosecutors) the stuff that's already been through the court is untouchable.

[Syferus]

Is it not the case that a retrial will only take place if new evidence becomes known. The last episode showed them appealing right up to the supreme court on the score that the investigation was a f**k up. So all (obvious dodgy activity by police/prosecutors) the stuff that's already been through the court is untouchable.

They can appeal but they don't get lawyers so they need massive amounts of money to fund a proper defense team. Yet another flaw of the system.

[finbar o tool]

How was the ex boyfriend not a lead suspect??? the day the car was found on the yard, who were the only search crew given a camera by the ex bf leading the search? Yip the ones who found the car which was so badly hidden it was unreal. as stated in the documentary surely Avery who had a crusher on site would have disposed of the car and all evidence inside it? Also the ex BF was able to get her voicemails one day online by guessing her password??? Also Halbach had been getting pestering phonecalls for weeks leading up to the murder and by her colleagues admission 'from a number she seemed to recognise' SURELY the ex bf should have been no1 suspect.

This. Coupled with Officer Coburn's (who was a very naughty boy not filing a report in the mid-90s that might have got Avery released years earlier on the rape case) dispatch check of Halbach's car's reg days before the car was found makes it seem an awful lot like the cops found the car and then moved it onto the Avery lot themselves. Whether they believed Avery to be guilty or they wanted to ruin his civil case that was likely going to bankrupt the county it smacks of incredible malpractice.

few things like the above that you mentioned earlier Syferus, unbelievable to think things like this were not investigated or pressed more.
another one, that brother of Teresa Halbach, (didnt like him and he didnt come across very well), he accessed his sisters voicemail's days after her disappearance and the defense pretty much proved that someone deleted voicemail's from Teresa's phone.
putting 2 and 2 together you'd be drawn into thinking that her brother did that! why would he do that?? there is so many crazy things that happened, or didnt happen, in the investigation and trial its hard to remember them all!

[gallsman]

How was the ex boyfriend not a lead suspect??? the day the car was found on the yard, who were the only search crew given a camera by the ex bf leading the search? Yip the ones who found the car which was so badly hidden it was unreal. as stated in the documentary surely Avery who had a crusher on site would have disposed of the car and all evidence inside it? Also the ex BF was able to get her voicemails one day online by guessing her password??? Also Halbach had been getting pestering phonecalls for weeks leading up to the murder and by her colleagues admission 'from a number she seemed to recognise' SURELY the ex bf should have been no1 suspect.

This. Coupled with Officer Coburn's (who was a very naughty boy not filing a report in the mid-90s that might have got Avery released years earlier on the rape case) dispatch check of Halbach's car's reg days before the car was found makes it seem an awful lot like the cops found the car and then moved it onto the Avery lot themselves. Whether they believed Avery to be guilty or they wanted to ruin his civil case that was likely going to bankrupt the county it smacks of incredible malpractice.

few things like the above that you mentioned earlier Syferus, unbelievable to think things like this were not investigated or pressed more.
another one, that brother of Teresa Halbach, (didnt like him and he didnt come across very well), he accessed his sisters voicemail's days after her disappearance and the defense pretty much proved that someone deleted voicemail's from Teresa's phone.
putting 2 and 2 together you'd be drawn into thinking that her brother did that! why would he do that?? there is so many crazy things that happened, or didnt happen, in the investigation and trial its hard to remember them all!

That's the problem with online detectives who make aspersions based on what they saw on a TV show. Some put 2 and 2 together and 5, others get 7, others get 56. I'd be interested to see how many of them get 4.

Halbach's brother does come across as very strange, but make no mistake, that's how the show intends to portray him. Also don't forget that this is a guy whose sister has been murdered and is getting told by the police that prior to this, she was also raped. A thirst for vengeance and irrational action would be, to put it mildly, understandable

[Syferus]

Halbach's brother is the director of football tech in the Packers' front office these days, and was even employed back when the case was on-going.

[gallsman]

Halbach's brother is the director of football tech in the Packers' front office these days, and was even employed back when the case was on-going.

The relevance of that being what exactly?

[Syferus]

Halbach's brother is the director of football tech in the Packers' front office these days, and was even employed back when the case was on-going.

The relevance of that being what exactly?

?

[gallsman]

Halbach's brother is the director of football tech in the Packers' front office these days, and was even employed back when the case was on-going.

The relevance of that being what exactly?

?

Pretty self explanatory in fairness. What relevance does the fact he works for the Packers have to the issues raised by the show that have subsequently been discussed in this thread,

[finbar o tool]

How was the ex boyfriend not a lead suspect??? the day the car was found on the yard, who were the only search crew given a camera by the ex bf leading the search? Yip the ones who found the car which was so badly hidden it was unreal. as stated in the documentary surely Avery who had a crusher on site would have disposed of the car and all evidence inside it? Also the ex BF was able to get her voicemails one day online by guessing her password??? Also Halbach had been getting pestering phonecalls for weeks leading up to the murder and by her colleagues admission 'from a number she seemed to recognise' SURELY the ex bf should have been no1 suspect.

This. Coupled with Officer Coburn's (who was a very naughty boy not filing a report in the mid-90s that might have got Avery released years earlier on the rape case) dispatch check of Halbach's car's reg days before the car was found makes it seem an awful lot like the cops found the car and then moved it onto the Avery lot themselves. Whether they believed Avery to be guilty or they wanted to ruin his civil case that was likely going to bankrupt the county it smacks of incredible malpractice.

few things like the above that you mentioned earlier Syferus, unbelievable to think things like this were not investigated or pressed more.
another one, that brother of Teresa Halbach, (didnt like him and he didnt come across very well), he accessed his sisters voicemail's days after her disappearance and the defense pretty much proved that someone deleted voicemail's from Teresa's phone.
putting 2 and 2 together you'd be drawn into thinking that her brother did that! why would he do that?? there is so many crazy things that happened, or didnt happen, in the investigation and trial its hard to remember them all!

That's the problem with online detectives who make aspersions based on what they saw on a TV show. Some put 2 and 2 together and 5, others get 7, others get 56. I'd be interested to see how many of them get 4.

Halbach's brother does come across as very strange, but make no mistake, that's how the show intends to portray him. Also don't forget that this is a guy whose sister has been murdered and is getting told by the police that prior to this, she was also raped. A thirst for vengeance and irrational action would be, to put it mildly, understandable

i understand about the 2 plus 2 argument, i suppose i was just highlighting another dodgy thing about this case.

you could tell that Kratz had been in the brothers ear alright. he had his mind made up and no evidence was going to sway him.
IMO the case should have been a mistrial as soon as the Manitowoc County sheriff's department were heavily involved when a judge had ruled they take no(further) part in the investigation.

[gallsman]

How was the ex boyfriend not a lead suspect??? the day the car was found on the yard, who were the only search crew given a camera by the ex bf leading the search? Yip the ones who found the car which was so badly hidden it was unreal. as stated in the documentary surely Avery who had a crusher on site would have disposed of the car and all evidence inside it? Also the ex BF was able to get her voicemails one day online by guessing her password??? Also Halbach had been getting pestering phonecalls for weeks leading up to the murder and by her colleagues admission 'from a number she seemed to recognise' SURELY the ex bf should have been no1 suspect.

This. Coupled with Officer Coburn's (who was a very naughty boy not filing a report in the mid-90s that might have got Avery released years earlier on the rape case) dispatch check of Halbach's car's reg days before the car was found makes it seem an awful lot like the cops found the car and then moved it onto the Avery lot themselves. Whether they believed Avery to be guilty or they wanted to ruin his civil case that was likely going to bankrupt the county it smacks of incredible malpractice.

few things like the above that you mentioned earlier Syferus, unbelievable to think things like this were not investigated or pressed more.
another one, that brother of Teresa Halbach, (didnt like him and he didnt come across very well), he accessed his sisters voicemail's days after her disappearance and the defense pretty much proved that someone deleted voicemail's from Teresa's phone.
putting 2 and 2 together you'd be drawn into thinking that her brother did that! why would he do that?? there is so many crazy things that happened, or didnt happen, in the investigation and trial its hard to remember them all!

That's the problem with online detectives who make aspersions based on what they saw on a TV show. Some put 2 and 2 together and 5, others get 7, others get 56. I'd be interested to see how many of them get 4.

Halbach's brother does come across as very strange, but make no mistake, that's how the show intends to portray him. Also don't forget that this is a guy whose sister has been murdered and is getting told by the police that prior to this, she was also raped. A thirst for vengeance and irrational action would be, to put it mildly, understandable

i understand about the 2 plus 2 argument, i suppose i was just highlighting another dodgy thing about this case.

you could tell that Kratz had been in the brothers ear alright. he had his mind made up and no evidence was going to sway him.
IMO the case should have been a mistrial as soon as the Manitowoc County sheriff's department were heavily involved when a judge had ruled they take no(further) part in the investigation.

That's the thing, while it appears highly unethical and given that Lenk found the key itb looks incredibly dodgy on the face of it, a mistrial is not just something that is handed down because of this or that. There will be clear grounds for what constitutes a mistrial, and while we'd all hope that the above would be among those, they're not just handed out because it looks wrong.