(Spoilers)Making a Murderer - for those who have watched all 10

[Declan]

Just finished the series. My emotions went from disbelief to anger and back again throughout the episodes.

To my mind the system itself is fundamentally flawed and reading through some interviews with the programme makers they made some interesting points:

Why prosecutors in so many cases, not just this one, are so eager to go after the first person they've accused, even when doubts spring up?
I think it comes down to the public attitude. The public cares about prosecutors' conviction rates. It's about winning the trial. So if you've started to build the case against one person, and information [that contradicts it] comes, it's potentially a weak choice to change course, because the defense can point to, "Well, you thought it was this other person." So that's evidence that it's not the person you're now saying it is. If the system prioritizes conviction rates rather than having just verdicts, and if that's voted that way in elections, the problem will just continue. So elected officials are taking their cues from their constituents, and if constituents are saying, "we're not interested in you running on a platform of tough on crime — what we're interested in is you doing an ethical job and pursuing justice," I think in that sense, then elected officials probably will feel less pressure.

I also think it's interesting to note that the vast majority of cases don't even go to trial. Most defendants plead out, so when a prosecutor is in a position of taking a matter to trial, it's a significant investment of their time and their resources, and they're in it to win.

So if the focus and the objective of prosecutors shifts away from winning to doing justice, and then if they come across potentially exculpatory evidence [which could prove the defendant is not guilty] or actually exculpatory evidence, that person might be more inclined to turn it over to the defense, as they're required to. You'd see fewer abuses and things of that nature, and the system would be fairer.

The law is an ass and I was brought up to believe that innocent until proven guilty is the standard approach but obviously that outlook isn't the standard within the America Justice system

[Smokin Joe]

Stew, you had asked about how those who think Avery was innocent could explain away all the "missing evidence" that was left out of the Netflix documentary.
Have a read of this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...sing_evidence/

[imtommygunn]

The Avery family accent is class.

It's a bit like the Fargo one.

[AZOffaly]

All them Minnesota/Wisconsin lads have a weird accent. It's like Scandinavian crossed with Canadian.

[blewuporstuffed]

I Binge watched the series over the weekend and only have episode 10 to watch, so I think I am safe enough coming on here at this stage.
Whatever about Avery's innocence or guilt, surely there needs to be a federal investigation into the conduct of the Sheriffs department.
Avery may well be guilty, but I think there is little doubt that they acted, at best negligently in the investigation, and at worse actually planted evidence.

[stew]

I Binge watched the series over the weekend and only have episode 10 to watch, so I think I am safe enough coming on here at this stage.
Whatever about Avery's innocence or guilt, surely there needs to be a federal investigation into the conduct of the Sheriffs department.
Avery may well be guilty, but I think there is little doubt that they acted, at best negligently in the investigation, and at worse actually planted evidence.

Correct.

[imtommygunn]

Avery's mother has came out and said that she is not convinced the woman is dead at all as they have never found the body.

[JoG2]

Whether Avery is innocent I cannot 100% say, but what I can is he nor Dassey (who I believe is 100% innocent) can be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt with the evidence given by the prosecution. It's a disgrace and I could literally write page after page of the reasons why ( which I'll likely do at some point lol )

Lenk, Colborn, Kratz, Fassbender, Kachinsky, O' Kelly  and the two cops who took Dasseys original statement are rotten to the core. Maybe they thought they had the right man and we're going to do anything possible to put him away but that's not justice and they know Dasseys life is collateral damage for getting Avery, there can be no moral argument for their actions when a child's life is taken from him. They took the law into their own hands and manipulated the evidence. I've no doubt of that.

I remain sceptical about Teresa's ex boyfriend and something about her brother doesn't sit well with me either. The phone calls being deleted and her phone being hacked troubles me. Bobby Dassey and his father didn't come out of it well either. But NOBODY else was looked at, that alone is extremely poor police work.

A harrowing and thought provoking documentary series, i hope justice prevails, but that is rather in hope than expectation.

superb and very intriguing documentary. The bit in bold, I was thinking the same. The brother seemed to overly court the media and limelight. Neither were investigated which is baffling.

Dexter  (the blood splatter show guy) used to spend hours setting up his kill room to avoid any blood, DNA etc from being found. Yet TH supposedly gets shot in the garage with a thousand and one implements lying about and the room is blood and DNA free...seriously? The bedroom blood and DNA free? Crazy stuff

[clarshack]

How was the ex boyfriend not a lead suspect??? the day the car was found on the yard, who were the only search crew given a camera by the ex bf leading the search? Yip the ones who found the car which was so badly hidden it was unreal. as stated in the documentary surely Avery who had a crusher on site would have disposed of the car and all evidence inside it? Also the ex BF was able to get her voicemails one day online by guessing her password??? Also Halbach had been getting pestering phonecalls for weeks leading up to the murder and by her colleagues admission 'from a number she seemed to recognise' SURELY the ex bf should have been no1 suspect.

just finished it over the weekend. unbelievable that the ex boyfriend was not a lead suspect .  also agree that teresa halbach's brother should have been investigated too.

[GJL]

Finished it at the weekend. Why was there not more made of the fact that none of her DNA was found on her own key. Just his? The whole case stank and I feel really sorry for the young lad.

[gallsman]

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/25/dead-certainty

Good article here about the flaws with the documentary.

[thebigfella]

Whether Avery is innocent I cannot 100% say, but what I can is he nor Dassey (who I believe is 100% innocent) can be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt with the evidence given by the prosecution. It's a disgrace and I could literally write page after page of the reasons why ( which I'll likely do at some point lol )

Lenk, Colborn, Kratz, Fassbender, Kachinsky, O' Kelly  and the two cops who took Dasseys original statement are rotten to the core. Maybe they thought they had the right man and we're going to do anything possible to put him away but that's not justice and they know Dasseys life is collateral damage for getting Avery, there can be no moral argument for their actions when a child's life is taken from him. They took the law into their own hands and manipulated the evidence. I've no doubt of that.

I remain sceptical about Teresa's ex boyfriend and something about her brother doesn't sit well with me either. The phone calls being deleted and her phone being hacked troubles me. Bobby Dassey and his father didn't come out of it well either. But NOBODY else was looked at, that alone is extremely poor police work.

A harrowing and thought provoking documentary series, i hope justice prevails, but that is rather in hope than expectation.

superb and very intriguing documentary. The bit in bold, I was thinking the same. The brother seemed to overly court the media and limelight. Neither were investigated which is baffling.

Dexter  (the blood splatter show guy) used to spend hours setting up his kill room to avoid any blood, DNA etc from being found. Yet TH supposedly gets shot in the garage with a thousand and one implements lying about and the room is blood and DNA free...seriously? The bedroom blood and DNA free? Crazy stuff

Yep. Out of all the stuff on whether or not Avery is guilty; the cops are w**ks etc...... I felt zero empathy towards the brother and I found that odd. I don't think it's down to the film makers being biased either as he had very little exposure but he had this smirk at times that really annoyed me.

[gallsman]

Whether Avery is innocent I cannot 100% say, but what I can is he nor Dassey (who I believe is 100% innocent) can be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt with the evidence given by the prosecution. It's a disgrace and I could literally write page after page of the reasons why ( which I'll likely do at some point lol )

Lenk, Colborn, Kratz, Fassbender, Kachinsky, O' Kelly  and the two cops who took Dasseys original statement are rotten to the core. Maybe they thought they had the right man and we're going to do anything possible to put him away but that's not justice and they know Dasseys life is collateral damage for getting Avery, there can be no moral argument for their actions when a child's life is taken from him. They took the law into their own hands and manipulated the evidence. I've no doubt of that.

I remain sceptical about Teresa's ex boyfriend and something about her brother doesn't sit well with me either. The phone calls being deleted and her phone being hacked troubles me. Bobby Dassey and his father didn't come out of it well either. But NOBODY else was looked at, that alone is extremely poor police work.

A harrowing and thought provoking documentary series, i hope justice prevails, but that is rather in hope than expectation.

superb and very intriguing documentary. The bit in bold, I was thinking the same. The brother seemed to overly court the media and limelight. Neither were investigated which is baffling.

Dexter  (the blood splatter show guy) used to spend hours setting up his kill room to avoid any blood, DNA etc from being found. Yet TH supposedly gets shot in the garage with a thousand and one implements lying about and the room is blood and DNA free...seriously? The bedroom blood and DNA free? Crazy stuff

Yep. Out of all the stuff on whether or not Avery is guilty; the cops are w**ks etc...... I felt zero empathy towards the brother and I found that odd. I don't think it's down to the film makers being biased either as he had very little exposure but he had this smirk at times that really annoyed me.

I keep thinking the same, but remember that it's real footage from interviews at the trial they're using of a guy whose sister has been brutally murdered. Only in the context of the documentary painting Avery as innocent can we look at him in this skeptical light. If it was a case in the news at the minute, your heart would be breaking for him.

[laoislad]

Whether Avery is innocent I cannot 100% say, but what I can is he nor Dassey (who I believe is 100% innocent) can be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt with the evidence given by the prosecution. It's a disgrace and I could literally write page after page of the reasons why ( which I'll likely do at some point lol )

Lenk, Colborn, Kratz, Fassbender, Kachinsky, O' Kelly  and the two cops who took Dasseys original statement are rotten to the core. Maybe they thought they had the right man and we're going to do anything possible to put him away but that's not justice and they know Dasseys life is collateral damage for getting Avery, there can be no moral argument for their actions when a child's life is taken from him. They took the law into their own hands and manipulated the evidence. I've no doubt of that.

I remain sceptical about Teresa's ex boyfriend and something about her brother doesn't sit well with me either. The phone calls being deleted and her phone being hacked troubles me. Bobby Dassey and his father didn't come out of it well either. But NOBODY else was looked at, that alone is extremely poor police work.

A harrowing and thought provoking documentary series, i hope justice prevails, but that is rather in hope than expectation.

superb and very intriguing documentary. The bit in bold, I was thinking the same. The brother seemed to overly court the media and limelight. Neither were investigated which is baffling.

Dexter  (the blood splatter show guy) used to spend hours setting up his kill room to avoid any blood, DNA etc from being found. Yet TH supposedly gets shot in the garage with a thousand and one implements lying about and the room is blood and DNA free...seriously? The bedroom blood and DNA free? Crazy stuff

Yep. Out of all the stuff on whether or not Avery is guilty; the cops are w**ks etc...... I felt zero empathy towards the brother and I found that odd. I don't think it's down to the film makers being biased either as he had very little exposure but he had this smirk at times that really annoyed me.

I keep thinking the same, but remember that it's real footage from interviews at the trial they're using of a guy whose sister has been brutally murdered. Only in the context of the documentary painting Avery as innocent can we look at him in this skeptical light. If it was a case in the news at the minute, your heart would be breaking for him.

I'd still think that he was a cnut.

[gallsman]

I struggle to believe that many of us on here would act any differently if it was our brother and sister. The thirst for vengeance would be overwhelming.