French Terrorist Attacks

[moysider]

I haven't been on facebook since the end of October so I don't know who has changed their pics or not.

Anyway, could anybody tell me in plain English what the major powers should do now? I wonder if they all stopped meddling in the Middle East, would ISIS stop their 'meddling' in western countries? Has there been too much wrongs done in the name of 'oil/whatever else' for the Islamic terrorists to continue their campaign of hate? I don't pretend to know the Sunni- Shia conflict, is it worse than the West v them conflict we are now seeing?

No.

ISIS purpose is to meddle, to cause chaos and terror. They have a manifesto and a strategy and instability, fear, uncertainty and hesitancy in the west something they thrive on and embrace.
I don t think the Islamic world is going to defeat ISIS on their own.
There are problems in the middle east and north Africa that allow this group to thrive and survive. But desertification in Africa and population explosion won t be solved anytime soon and ISIS is not something that can be contained. They have had far too much time already to become entrenched  in their 'homeland' and in muslim communities in the west.
While environmental and social circumstances give ISIS a rich recruitment base to draw impressionable soldiers from, ISIS agenda is not about making peoples lives better or equable spreading of resources. Their only interest in resources like oil and technology is to promote and enforce their vision of the future world as they see it. Their vision is the destruction of mankind not the betterment of anybody. As such the west meddling in the middle east is an opportunity to spread chaos. They see the whole world as their rightful domain anyway and non-believers as nothing but infidels that they can rape, enslave and kill as they choose. Meddling or not these zealots have a global ambition.

Hollande has called this out as a war and that is correct. What is clear is that this development is not something that can be appeased or negotiated with.

They are bloodthirsty and are calling out a fight to the end. Imo the fight has to be taken to them more than it has. I think the Paris bombings were a game changer. I expect they will get end of days scenario they crave. Many of them have got their end already and I ve no doubt anybody connected with Paris is not going to last long. The thing about modern networking is that while it can recruit far and wide it also leaves a trail. They are all dead men walking. There are no hiding places a drone or 2 won t eventually reach.
Also like the Nazis there is probably a limited number of hard core driving this project and when things start going against them they will melt away. It may take a few boots on the ground to end it though. I suspect most now living in ISIS stronghold will embrace liberation from this sect. What replaces them and likes of Assad is another matter. Right now the elimination of ISIS is the immediate priority.

[Itchy]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

[moysider]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

[stew]

In related news the prez and his minnions refuse to use the words 'radical Muslim extremists' and claims the policy he has in place is going to win out in time.

The University of Minnesota in the twin cities has decided it will not honor the 911 dead because 'It might makes some students uncomfortable' Cowardly bastards! My youngest graduated from there and she is a far left wing nut, drives me up the effin walls!

Black Lives matter students kicked out a bunch of non black students from a rally and demanded that they be 'allowed  to heal'  in private and some are angry at the attention the French Bombing is getting because that takes away from whatever the hell their agenda is!

Clinton digging a big hole for herself toeing the line of the Prez on ISIS.

Liberals in this country, I am talking here about the far left liberals, are f**king this country up like no other before them.

[Franko]

I haven't been on facebook since the end of October so I don't know who has changed their pics or not.

Anyway, could anybody tell me in plain English what the major powers should do now? I wonder if they all stopped meddling in the Middle East, would ISIS stop their 'meddling' in western countries? Has there been too much wrongs done in the name of 'oil/whatever else' for the Islamic terrorists to continue their campaign of hate? I don't pretend to know the Sunni- Shia conflict, is it worse than the West v them conflict we are now seeing?

No.

ISIS purpose is to meddle, to cause chaos and terror. They have a manifesto and a strategy and instability, fear, uncertainty and hesitancy in the west something they thrive on and embrace.
I don t think the Islamic world is going to defeat ISIS on their own.
There are problems in the middle east and north Africa that allow this group to thrive and survive. But desertification in Africa and population explosion won t be solved anytime soon and ISIS is not something that can be contained. They have had far too much time already to become entrenched  in their 'homeland' and in muslim communities in the west.
While environmental and social circumstances give ISIS a rich recruitment base to draw impressionable soldiers from, ISIS agenda is not about making peoples lives better or equable spreading of resources. Their only interest in resources like oil and technology is to promote and enforce their vision of the future world as they see it. Their vision is the destruction of mankind not the betterment of anybody. As such the west meddling in the middle east is an opportunity to spread chaos. They see the whole world as their rightful domain anyway and non-believers as nothing but infidels that they can rape, enslave and kill as they choose. Meddling or not these zealots have a global ambition.

Hollande has called this out as a war and that is correct. What is clear is that this development is not something that can be appeased or negotiated with.

They are bloodthirsty and are calling out a fight to the end. Imo the fight has to be taken to them more than it has. I think the Paris bombings were a game changer. I expect they will get end of days scenario they crave. Many of them have got their end already and I ve no doubt anybody connected with Paris is not going to last long. The thing about modern networking is that while it can recruit far and wide it also leaves a trail. They are all dead men walking. There are no hiding places a drone or 2 won t eventually reach.
Also like the Nazis there is probably a limited number of hard core driving this project and when things start going against them they will melt away. It may take a few boots on the ground to end it though. I suspect most now living in ISIS stronghold will embrace liberation from this sect. What replaces them and likes of Assad is another matter. Right now the elimination of ISIS is the immediate priority.

I think you're right Moysider.  al-Baghdadi and his followers believe that they are duty bound by the Koran to wage Jihad at least once a year to increase the size of the caliphate.  Ignoring them and leaving them to their own devices is a non-starter.

[seafoid]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

It's a byproduct of Sunni grievances as well.
These have to be addressed.

In the north the Brits eventually understood that it was required to spend lots of money on infrastructure and social stuff to defang the paramilitaries. Same in Syria/Iraq.

[Franko]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

It's a byproduct of Sunni grievances as well.
These have to be addressed.

In the north the Brits eventually understood that it was required to spend lots of money on infrastructure and social stuff to defang the paramilitaries. Same in Syria/Iraq.

This is on a completely different level.  The indoctrination of these people has happened.  These beliefs are now ingrained and a few roads and hospitals will not remove them.  Even during the worst of the troubles there was still some semblance of social order in the north.  In Syria the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

[Esmarelda]

Sinn Fein being called out badly this evening for this . . .

http://m.newsletter.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-news/sf-s-failure-to-back-isis-motion-condemned-1-6636745

This is going to look really badly on them now and rightly so. They need to give a plausible reason for this but I doubt they have one!!!

SF does not engage in the politics of condemnation, don't you know.
All they are doing is isolating themselves from the average European.

And I personally see no solution to anything in that part of the world, until Israel stops its slaughter as well as ISIS and all the others.

In this context Israel is like one of the former regimes, distasteful at times but you know what they are going to do and they are organised enough to trade off interests so as not to piss off people too much. The Devil you Know, and not likely to some under much scrutiny when such savagery exists nearby .

I'm pretty sure Adams condemned the attacks on Friday night but during the troubles in the North you're right, they didn't partake in condemnation politics.

Maybe SF don't want to set a precedent of having to support motions collectively in the EU against any organisation. It will be interesting to see how they explain it.

[seafoid]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

It's a byproduct of Sunni grievances as well.
These have to be addressed.

In the north the Brits eventually understood that it was required to spend lots of money on infrastructure and social stuff to defang the paramilitaries. Same in Syria/Iraq.

This is on a completely different level.  The indoctrination of these people has happened.  These beliefs are now ingrained and a few roads and hospitals will not remove them.  Even during the worst of the troubles there was still some semblance of social order in the north.  In Syria the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

It is Franko but if you whack the IS mole another will pop up because of the grievances.

[Itchy]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

I don't believe that there are no doves. They might be few and far between but there have to be some. The alternative is blowing up and yes murdering innocent Muslims which will mean less doves and more slaughter in the west. There is no choice but to develop channels to talk, that is the lesson of history no matter how unpalatable it is to most

[NAG1]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

I don't believe that there are no doves. They might be few and far between but there have to be some. The alternative is blowing up and yes murdering innocent Muslims which will mean less doves and more slaughter in the west. There is no choice but to develop channels to talk, that is the lesson of history no matter how unpalatable it is to most

That is the problem with this version of extreme Islam, western people by living their day to day lives are seen to be against Islam and therefore need to be wiped out.

These people are not wanting to be given better schools and hospitals by the west, they are going back to the ancient Islam that allows them to bring back slavery, crucifixion and all the other ancient evil that comes from the Koran. They are working toward an apocalypse where they believe there will be an all out war that will see the end of the world. Therefore these attacks are designed to spread fear yes, but also to draw the west further into what these jihad's believe will be that war which they seek.

There is no negotiation or mediation with this brand of Islamic violence, which is a scary thought in itself.

[Franko]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

I don't believe that there are no doves. They might be few and far between but there have to be some. The alternative is blowing up and yes murdering innocent Muslims which will mean less doves and more slaughter in the west. There is no choice but to develop channels to talk, that is the lesson of history no matter how unpalatable it is to most

I'm not sure Itchy.  There are no doves because the only agenda that these guys have is the creation of a worldwide caliphate, a Sunni Muslim utopia *Edit (and ultimately the end of the world).  They are duty bound by their strongly held beliefs to continue this until completion.  They don't want money/oil/land/power (although these are all a means to an end).  The west has nothing with which to negotiate.  They are like the Nazis in this respect and it wasn't talking which defeated them.

[Franko]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

It's a byproduct of Sunni grievances as well.
These have to be addressed.

In the north the Brits eventually understood that it was required to spend lots of money on infrastructure and social stuff to defang the paramilitaries. Same in Syria/Iraq.

This is on a completely different level.  The indoctrination of these people has happened.  These beliefs are now ingrained and a few roads and hospitals will not remove them.  Even during the worst of the troubles there was still some semblance of social order in the north.  In Syria the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

It is Franko but if you whack the IS mole another will pop up because of the grievances.

What are these grievances?

[Keyser soze]

I must say that some of the comment on these issues is the must ill-informed prejudicial nonsense I ever read.

Lets start with President Hollande who yesterday laughably declared his intention to go to war with ISIS.

U were already at war with these people when u started started dropping bombs on them and arming their enemies u  imbecile. The transparency of his feeble attempt to cover up his inaction since the Hebdo affair, by dropping bombs on Raqqa, is pathetic.  And no word of how many civilians got killed in those attacks. Oh sorry that's "collateral damage". Not terrorism.

And anyway it was done from quite a distance away. So the guy pushing the button to drop the bomb isn't a murderer or a savage. In fact he's a hero. And so is the guy who ordered him to do it. And anyway killing god knows-how-many non-combatants by bombing doesn't really count. Unless they're white and live in a western city. And bombing will definitely solve the problem. Even though that was what started the problem.

Cameron comes on talking about vicious ruthless evil yadda yadda yadda. How many deaths are you responsible for, not to mention previous British governments who were critical in starting this whole mess. Just because someone is sitting in Chesterfield pushing the button to bomb somewhere in Afghanistan/Iraq/Syria/Anywhere but Saudi Arabia doesn't make it any less of a murder. Sickening hypocrites. Same for the Obama and the Americans substituting Fort Meade. The hyprocisy of these f****** is breathtaking. You have no high moral ground here as you have more blood on your hands than any ISIS leader, and wearing a sharp suit and tie doesn't change that.

The only 2 people I have heard even mention the fact that ISIS is a Saudi sponsored faction [as was Al Quaeda] is Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, admittedly an unlikley pair of bedfellows, but at least they recognise the source of the problem and are asking what is going to be done to address that. The rest of them are crying about savages and cruelty and innocent civilians and inhumane and bloodthirsty whilst at the same time and without the slighest blush of shame, sending shiploads of weaponry to Saudi and Israel every month.

How does anyone believe a single word these clowns utter? I suppose when you see and hear the public reaction online and other media it becomes clear how such hypocritical lying assholes get voted in.

And the clowns on FB, OMG these people sicken my hole. Spoutin nonsense about stopping immigration. The problem isn't Syrians coming here and starting killing people. It's people from Birminghan and Blackburn and Cardiff and Derry and countless other places going out to the middle east to kill all around them. Not to mention the 1500-2000 French citizens who travelled to Syria to particiapte in the war there. So if you are talking about immigration as a cover for people travelling to kill citizens of a country its a one way street so far. Maybe if Syria had stopped English and French people going to Jihad in their country they mightn't have had such a big problem.

The number of nationalist/republicans I have seen liking and sharing posts from organisations like Britain First [neo nazi group] is amazing. And people on here expressing the exact same far right views. Can they not remember or do they not care that this was the sort of shite they were coming out with about you not that long ago?

[Hereiam]

All very true Keyser.
I know its a terrible thing that happened to the people in Paris but the blame lies with their Government who took the decision to get involved in this conflict. Do Britain, America etc think they can go into the middle east and do what they are doing without some sort of repercussions. The fact that FB has given stupid people a place to voice their opinions on matters that they have no understanding of fuels the fire that western governments need to keep on doing what they are doing. You will find that the British government will push through this new law allowing them to force ISP's to store everybody's browsing history from the internet for their spooks to search on the back of this attack, we are under the impression that we live in a free society but that is far from the truth.
The IRA were either lucky or seen what was coming down the pipeline when they issued a cease fire because with the technical advances since the ceasefire it would make it impossible for them to continue with what they were doing. Britain has a very strong foothold in the world and both militarily and financially but one of these days the chickens will come home to roost.

That my thoughts anyway.