French Terrorist Attacks

[Milltown Row2]

Not just Syria.

You think differently, fine. Pursue them through the criminal justice system? It s been done already I m sure. And when they do cut off somebody's head a la Lee Rigby, sure they will be locked up for good.

Where do you want to deport these people that are your own citizens? Send a lad whose Granda happened to be Pakistani to Pakistan? What if Pakistan says they don't want him?

Not sure what point you're trying to make about Lee Rigby, given that his murderers were both sentenced to life imprisonment...

So you re happy with radicals walking the streets until they actually strike out and cut heads off people?

If some people don t like the way things are in the west, yeah let them off to where their ancestors came from - in the case of Rigby's murderers, Nigeria, I think>

Plenty radicals were walking around the streets of West and North Belfast during the seventies trying cut and blow people up.... They should have been deported to the South and rest to Scotland!!

[gallsman]

There are a few lads on here whose views I find disgraceful. Can I have them shipped to Tonga please?

[moysider]

So what do you do with known radicals?

San Bernardino now beginning to look like another failure. Not perhaps with intelligence but with a strategy to manage and contain radicals. What do you think should happen?

[gallsman]

So what do you do with known radicals?

San Bernardino now beginning to look like another failure. Not perhaps with intelligence but with a strategy to manage and contain radicals. What do you think should happen?

If they have committed a crime, you pursue them using legal means. You appear to want to Guantanamo them.

[moysider]

So we just have to accept that incidents like Paris are going to happen and suck it up when it does happen?
When these events happen we deal with them and move on and wait for the next one?
In other words carry on doing what is being done already. Fine, but no point people being shocked/outraged as these events continue to happen. Events in Paris, Brussels and California shows that in spite of intelligence the west is a playground for terrorists.

[moysider]

Why did the Paris attack happen? What was the motive? Why Paris?

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

[gallsman]

So we just have to accept that incidents like Paris are going to happen and suck it up when it does happen?
When these events happen we deal with them and move on and wait for the next one?
In other words carry on doing what is being done already. Fine, but no point people being shocked/outraged as these events continue to happen. Events in Paris, Brussels and California shows that in spite of intelligence the west is a playground for terrorists.

I don't know. This is the issue - there is no simple solution. What I do know, however, that your proposed solution - deporting anyone whose views you disagree with to wherever the hell you fancy - is wrong. It is flat out racist, illegal, a breach of human rights, immoral etc etc etc

[moysider]

So we just have to accept that incidents like Paris are going to happen and suck it up when it does happen?
When these events happen we deal with them and move on and wait for the next one?
In other words carry on doing what is being done already. Fine, but no point people being shocked/outraged as these events continue to happen. Events in Paris, Brussels and California shows that in spite of intelligence the west is a playground for terrorists.

I don't know. This is the issue - there is no simple solution. What I do know, however, that your proposed solution - deporting anyone whose views you disagree with to wherever the hell you fancy - is wrong. It is flat out racist, illegal, a breach of human rights, immoral etc etc etc

You know well I wasn t proposing rounding up number. But how much damage did clerics like Abu Hamza do before he was extradited? Is it wise that young men that travel to the middle east and join an extreme group are allowed back? It appears that one of the Paris ring leaders travelled with impunity to and from Syria and even though intelligence were aware of him they seem to be powerless to stop him until he actually went destructive. Hardly effective strategy for a known radical who is going to die when he does his thing and wont be bothering the judicial system.

But I take your point. It would be racist, illegal etc to try and prevent these events. It is of course important to maintain standards. The opposition on the other hand don t have to worry about human rights and things like that.

[seafoid]

So we just have to accept that incidents like Paris are going to happen and suck it up when it does happen?
When these events happen we deal with them and move on and wait for the next one?
In other words carry on doing what is being done already. Fine, but no point people being shocked/outraged as these events continue to happen. Events in Paris, Brussels and California shows that in spite of intelligence the west is a playground for terrorists.

I don't know. This is the issue - there is no simple solution. What I do know, however, that your proposed solution - deporting anyone whose views you disagree with to wherever the hell you fancy - is wrong. It is flat out racist, illegal, a breach of human rights, immoral etc etc etc

You know well I wasn t proposing rounding up number. But how much damage did clerics like Abu Hamza do before he was extradited? Is it wise that young men that travel to the middle east and join an extreme group are allowed back? It appears that one of the Paris ring leaders travelled with impunity to and from Syria and even though intelligence were aware of him they seem to be powerless to stop him until he actually went destructive. Hardly effective strategy for a known radical who is going to die when he does his thing and wont be bothering the judicial system.

But I take your point. It would be racist, illegal etc to try and prevent these events. It is of course important to maintain standards. The opposition on the other hand don t have to worry about human rights and things like that.

I just read le Canard Enchaine , the French equivalent of the Phoenix and there was an article about  Salafi mosques and the filth preached at them. One in the south in Montpellier, others in other cities. A huge problem.

[gallsman]

Precisely. That's part of what (I'd like to think) separates us. Some of your proposals, however, have no place in a civilised society.

Hate preachers? Try them, convict then and lock up.

People going to Syria to fight? I'm not sure about this one. A couple of years ago western governments were sponsoring people to go and fight your Assads, your Gaddafis etc. Tubridy interviewed a Libyan fella on the late late ffs. Now because the sands have shifted, we turn round and tell them to f**k off?

[moysider]

Precisely. That's part of what (I'd like to think) separates us. Some of your proposals, however, have no place in a civilised society.

Hate preachers? Try them, convict then and lock up.

People going to Syria to fight? I'm not sure about this one. A couple of years ago western governments were sponsoring people to go and fight your Assads, your Gaddafis etc. Tubridy interviewed a Libyan fella on the late late ffs. Now because the sands have shifted, we turn round and tell them to f**k off?

These were the guys I was talking about. Of course in France especially, this radical preaching would be regarded as free speech. On the other hand we know what happens when the shoe is on the other foot and the prophet is disrespected. Very hard to play a game when there are different rules for either side.

[BennyHarp]

I wonder was Tony Benn turning in his grave at his son Hillary's speech last night.

http://youtu.be/HfXmpJRZPYI

[gallsman]

Precisely. That's part of what (I'd like to think) separates us. Some of your proposals, however, have no place in a civilised society.

Hate preachers? Try them, convict then and lock up.

People going to Syria to fight? I'm not sure about this one. A couple of years ago western governments were sponsoring people to go and fight your Assads, your Gaddafis etc. Tubridy interviewed a Libyan fella on the late late ffs. Now because the sands have shifted, we turn round and tell them to f**k off?

These were the guys I was talking about. Of course in France especially, this radical preaching would be regarded as free speech. On the other hand we know what happens when the shoe is on the other foot and the prophet is disrespected. Very hard to play a game when there are different rules for either side.

I know what you meant but I still disagree with you. First of all, you have to be very clear about what hate speech is, rather than just views, no matter how distasteful, that you disagree with. Then you can't just fire them on a plane and say "OK, you're a Muslim, you look after them!".

[moysider]

Precisely. That's part of what (I'd like to think) separates us. Some of your proposals, however, have no place in a civilised society.

Hate preachers? Try them, convict then and lock up.

People going to Syria to fight? I'm not sure about this one. A couple of years ago western governments were sponsoring people to go and fight your Assads, your Gaddafis etc. Tubridy interviewed a Libyan fella on the late late ffs. Now because the sands have shifted, we turn round and tell them to f**k off?

These were the guys I was talking about. Of course in France especially, this radical preaching would be regarded as free speech. On the other hand we know what happens when the shoe is on the other foot and the prophet is disrespected. Very hard to play a game when there are different rules for either side.

I know what you meant but I still disagree with you. First of all, you have to be very clear about what hate speech is, rather than just views, no matter how distasteful, that you disagree with. Then you can't just fire them on a plane and say "OK, you're a Muslim, you look after them!".

I have no problem with Muslims. I work with Muslims every day and have done so for years. I never thought about putting any of them on a plane.

I do have a problem though with extreme Islamists that have a vision of the whole world being their oyster and sharia law being universal. Especially when their strategy involves sexual exploitation of 'infidels' and attacks like Paris and possibly California.

There will have to be a better response to this threat than just cleaning up after an event.

The biggest responsibility of a government is the safety of their people. People need to be able to go to work without fear. Likewise their kids attending schools and colleges. Later people should be safe in bars, cafés, matches, concerts, etc.

Nothing new about that. For the ages kings and rulers were rated on their ability to provide security for their subjects. For Obama, Cameron, Hollande etc. that is their biggest challenge as well.

Public events already must have a massive security budget. How long can these events be sustainable if they continue to be targeted. If there are more terrorists issues in France over the next few months how many people will baulk at the idea of attending the European Championships? And how can anybody guarantee the safety of that tournament in so many cities in a country where radical Islam is endemic and an event like this must be an irresistible target. It's a security nightmare.

How can a country like UK, France, Britain and others give the 99.999% of the people any degree of public safety when there are known radicals (and probably unknown radicals), in the country, just staying onside but waiting for the soft opportunity to unleash terror. The crazy thing about some of these incidents is that when the perpetrators are identified, they are known and nobody is really surprised they went nuclear.

But you re probably right. Nothing to do but suck it up, wait until they strike, mop up after them and move on and sing anthems.

[stew]

I wonder was Tony Benn turning in his grave at his son Hillary's speech last night.

http://youtu.be/HfXmpJRZPYI

He made a great argument to hit the f**kers in fairness.

I will say this, the Muslim community will rise up and cause great harm to Britain if they become fully embroiled in Syria, if that happens the brits will have to drop the hammer on them, there is no end to this completely effed up conflict between the Muslims and the west.

I had one man a work tell me that the only cure for Syria is wlow grade nuclear weapons with a 3 mile kill range........................... I nearly went through him for a short cut.