French Terrorist Attacks

[muppet]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/20/us-saudi-rights-idUSKCN0T913X20151120#xRooYwsZVWXqglDl.97

Saudi sentences a Palestinian poet to death.

Hard to know which is worse for Palestinians, Israel or some of the other Arab states.

[periere]

You seem very focused on the Saudis/quataris etc. What of the role of Iranian backed Shia sectarianism that led to the escalation in Iraq ?

 

[muppet]

You seem very focused on the Saudis/quataris etc. What of the role of Iranian backed Shia sectarianism that led to the escalation in Iraq ?

Iran faced sanctions for decades and has been considered an enemy of the West.

I am focussing on the Saudis because they are allies of the US. The US supplies the Saudis with weapons. 911 was financed by Saudis and carried out by Saudis. ISIS receives massive funding from Saudis.

Why the blind spot from The West. Why have the French and for example the Brits said nothing of any of this?

Clinton and Biden have hinted that Saudi should take some responsibility for this.

Back to your question regarding Iran. Imagine if Iran had organised and financed 911 and had supplied 15 of the 19 terrorists? My view is that the US would have bombed the crap out of it. But it won't even wag a finger at Saudi. Why is that?

[periere]

Yes, Iran was an enemy of the west. They themselves declared the west as their enemy. Things are improving but they still contributed to the destabilization of Iraq. I understand they are acting in their own self interest which is fine by me but lets call a spade a spade.

As for the Saudies , no greater c***ts have ever existed but you are on very shaky ground saying that Saudi Arabia itself organized 9/11. 

So the US and the wests attitudes toward various countries reflect their own selfish self interests ? So what ? Are you coming at this from a moral angle ? Haven't learned by now that there is no moral highground in the middle east. It does not exist. This eternal oppressor versus eternal victim narrative is a waste of time.

If I recall correctly, there was a time when most of our oil was bought from Libya while Ghadaffi was in charge but, sure, that was grand . He was funding "the lads" .

[muppet]

Yes, Iran was an enemy of the west. They themselves declared the west as their enemy. Things are improving but they still contributed to the destabilization of Iraq. I understand they are acting in their own self interest which is fine by me but lets call a spade a spade.

As for the Saudies , no greater c***ts have ever existed but you are on very shaky ground saying that Saudi Arabia itself organized 9/11. 

So the US and the wests attitudes toward various countries reflect their own selfish self interests ? So what ? Are you coming at this from a moral angle ? Haven't learned by now that there is no moral highground in the middle east. It does not exist. This eternal oppressor versus eternal victim narrative is a waste of time.

If I recall correctly, there was a time when most of our oil was bought from Libya while Ghadaffi was in charge but, sure, that was grand . He was funding "the lads" .

You are misrepresenting what I sad. This is exactly what I said:

"911 was financed by Saudis and carried out by Saudis."

Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi, as were 15 of the 19 hijackers.

4 of the 19 terrorists were not Saudis. But the 2 UAE men, 1 Egyptian and 1 Lebanese hardly seems to dilute the significance of the involvement of Saudis.

They are the facts.

[seafoid]

Yes, Iran was an enemy of the west. They themselves declared the west as their enemy. Things are improving but they still contributed to the destabilization of Iraq. I understand they are acting in their own self interest which is fine by me but lets call a spade a spade.

As for the Saudies , no greater c***ts have ever existed but you are on very shaky ground saying that Saudi Arabia itself organized 9/11. 

So the US and the wests attitudes toward various countries reflect their own selfish self interests ? So what ? Are you coming at this from a moral angle ? Haven't learned by now that there is no moral highground in the middle east. It does not exist. This eternal oppressor versus eternal victim narrative is a waste of time.

If I recall correctly, there was a time when most of our oil was bought from Libya while Ghadaffi was in charge but, sure, that was grand . He was funding "the lads" .

Iran seems to be in a slow process of accommodation with the West. They took over in Iraq because the West was clueless and the country is majority Shia , as is Iran.

[seafoid]

You seem very focused on the Saudis/quataris etc. What of the role of Iranian backed Shia sectarianism that led to the escalation in Iraq ?

Who disbanded the Iraqi Army ? A Shia guy called Paul Bremer. Who ran the de Baathification program?

[periere]

It was this statement that I was referring to

"Imagine if Iran had organised and financed 911 and had supplied 15 of the 19 terrorists?"

If you meant to say "Imagine if Iranians organized and financed...etc, etc" that's fine but it is very important that you make that distinction.

People need to be very clear and very precise in their language. 2 out the 3 ISIS terrorists that bombed Beirut were Palestinians...does that infer something about "Palestinians" or the Palestinian Authority ?

[periere]

Yes, Iran was an enemy of the west. They themselves declared the west as their enemy. Things are improving but they still contributed to the destabilization of Iraq. I understand they are acting in their own self interest which is fine by me but lets call a spade a spade.

As for the Saudies , no greater c***ts have ever existed but you are on very shaky ground saying that Saudi Arabia itself organized 9/11. 

So the US and the wests attitudes toward various countries reflect their own selfish self interests ? So what ? Are you coming at this from a moral angle ? Haven't learned by now that there is no moral highground in the middle east. It does not exist. This eternal oppressor versus eternal victim narrative is a waste of time.

If I recall correctly, there was a time when most of our oil was bought from Libya while Ghadaffi was in charge but, sure, that was grand . He was funding "the lads" .

Iran seems to be in a slow process of accommodation with the West. They took over in Iraq because the West was clueless and the country is majority Shia , as is Iran.

but the Saudis already have an "accommodation" with the west. Sure , If "accommodation" is the aim then what's the problem. Nobody has to like the bastards.

[seafoid]

Yes, Iran was an enemy of the west. They themselves declared the west as their enemy. Things are improving but they still contributed to the destabilization of Iraq. I understand they are acting in their own self interest which is fine by me but lets call a spade a spade.

As for the Saudies , no greater c***ts have ever existed but you are on very shaky ground saying that Saudi Arabia itself organized 9/11. 

So the US and the wests attitudes toward various countries reflect their own selfish self interests ? So what ? Are you coming at this from a moral angle ? Haven't learned by now that there is no moral highground in the middle east. It does not exist. This eternal oppressor versus eternal victim narrative is a waste of time.

If I recall correctly, there was a time when most of our oil was bought from Libya while Ghadaffi was in charge but, sure, that was grand . He was funding "the lads" .

Iran seems to be in a slow process of accommodation with the West. They took over in Iraq because the West was clueless and the country is majority Shia , as is Iran.

but the Saudis already have an "accommodation" with the west. Sure , If "accommodation" is the aim then what's the problem. Nobody has to like the b**tards.

Iranians are great people

[periere]

Totally agree. However the Sunnis in Iraq might disagree and simply focusing on US/Saudi means you are creating a hierarchy of grievances which just perpetuates the cycle.

[seafoid]

Totally agree. However the Sunnis in Iraq might disagree and simply focusing on US/Saudi means you are creating a hierarchy of grievances which just perpetuates the cycle.

The Saudis are nuts. Wahhabism is like a once in 500 years phenomenon when logic and tolerance go out the window and hatred and extremism take over. Could only have come up in a desert region.  They remind me of Aurangzeb , one of the last Moghuls. He lost the plot as well.

The Middle East needs a global settlement. Syria, Iraq, Palestine.

[periere]

Totally agree. However the Sunnis in Iraq might disagree and simply focusing on US/Saudi means you are creating a hierarchy of grievances which just perpetuates the cycle.

The Saudis are nuts. Wahhabism is like a once in 500 years phenomenon when logic and tolerance go out the window and hatred and extremism take over. Could only have come up in a desert region.  They remind me of Aurangzeb , one of the last Moghuls. He lost the plot as well.

The Middle East needs a global settlement. Syria, Iraq, Palestine.

"global settlement" ?....................redrawing borders ? mass resettlement of sunni ito sunni regions, shia into Shia regions ? You should be careful. You might find yourself very, very unpopular as you struggle with the practicalities and specifics of that ......and good luck explaining the ethnic cleansing that will follow.

[muppet]

Totally agree. However the Sunnis in Iraq might disagree and simply focusing on US/Saudi means you are creating a hierarchy of grievances which just perpetuates the cycle.

The Saudis are nuts. Wahhabism is like a once in 500 years phenomenon when logic and tolerance go out the window and hatred and extremism take over. Could only have come up in a desert region.  They remind me of Aurangzeb , one of the last Moghuls. He lost the plot as well.

The Middle East needs a global settlement. Syria, Iraq, Palestine.

"global settlement" ?....................redrawing borders ? mass resettlement of sunni ito sunni regions, shia into Shia regions ? You should be careful. You might find yourself very, very unpopular as you struggle with the practicalities and specifics of that ......and good luck explaining the ethnic cleansing that will follow.

Grand so.

Do nothing. Supply arms to both sides, at a cost of course. Show great indignation when some of the local intellectuals decide you are the cause of their misery, and decide to bomb you. When questioned on the matter point to 'borders', 'mass resettlement' even though no one suggested any of this.

The claim victory on the practicalities of the issues that only you raised.

[armaghniac]

Mass resettlement might not have been formally proposed by anyone, but is reflected by people's actions on the ground. Many of these people will never return to this origin.