[Merged] Religion topic Bishop Eamon reaffirms Catholic teaching & Cinemas refusing to show ad featu

[Eamonnca1]

Do you approve of the left-handed lifestyle?

And what has murder and pedophilia got to do with sexuality?  Why compare them?

[J70]

Two other propositions I reject.

1.Gays are some persecuted minority.Look at the arrogance on display at any Gay Pride Parade and see the myth this is.

2.Gays are "born that way". If this is true so are paedophiles,murderers,rapists etc therefore by logical extension no one should be held responsible for anything.

Is your own (presumed) attraction to women innate?

What parts of "consent" and "harm to others" and "adult" and "child" and "greater good" do you not comprehend?

By the logic of your first part, sure Irish Catholics were never oppressed. Look at all the Paddy's Day parades. And what about those civil rights marchers in the US south in the early sixties. The nerve of them marching through those streets, holding their heads up high, singing "we shall overcome!" A parade or a march means institutional and societal bias and prejudice has been consigned to the dustbin of history!

[heffo]

Two other propositions I reject.

1.Gays are some persecuted minority.Look at the arrogance on display at any Gay Pride Parade and see the myth this is.

2.Gays are "born that way". If this is true so are paedophiles,murderers,rapists etc therefore by logical extension no one should be held responsible for anything.

Tony I really hope you're on the windup and don't genuinely believe either of those assertions.

[imtommygunn]

Two other propositions I reject.

1.Gays are some persecuted minority.Look at the arrogance on display at any Gay Pride Parade and see the myth this is.

2.Gays are "born that way". If this is true so are paedophiles,murderers,rapists etc therefore by logical extension no one should be held responsible for anything.

As per every thread when people think you can't go any lower you do. Well played.

You really can't be a real person but you come up with odd things to wind up on - particularly when you use your own name.

[outinfront]

Lads why bother engaging in debate with him? He has his views and is devoutly Catholic. It's a waste of keyboard warrior time.  On this issue there is no room for manoeuvre. As much as his views disgust me I see little point in bothering.

[imtommygunn]

Lads why bother engaging in debate with him? He has his views and is devoutly Catholic. It's a waste of keyboard warrior time.  On this issue there is no room for manoeuvre. As much as his views disgust me I see little point in bothering.

I don't really think they are his views. They just get him attention.

[omaghjoe]

There is an excessive amount of adhominen, analogy fallacies and theophobia going on here, that I believe feed into your belief and entrench your position. What you are basically saying is that is it a matter for yourself and you should have a right to believe it? Correct?
If thats correct I have to ask why you continue to proclaim it, you should be comfortable in yourself on this to say it once and leave it. I therefore I believe that there is something in you that is trying to find a way to rationalise your acceptance of gays so I will continue on that premise.

So I will go back again to usury and credit cards, I will use a comparison between the two because both could be deemed sins in the Catholic church but are not illegal and are mostly accepted by mainstream society, however a question mark remains over the degree of their morality by some.

I dont think that there is any doubt that lending money at 20% plus would be not considered excessive but that's what these companies do. I know someone who works for one of these companies, has a family, sends their kids to Catholic school, goes to mass, and in general appears to live a life with the intent of keeping with the Catholic doctrine.
That is of course technically with the exception of their job....Now although their job would sit uncomfortably with myself I know they can rationalise it, with providing a service, providing jobs, etc etc so I would basically say fair enough if you can rationalise that the good outweighs the bad, more power to ye. It is for you if there is an issue with it come judegment day and I wont be making the call so you tear away.

Now if you compare this to another friend I have who is an educator and in monogamous same sex relationship, tho not religousc, appears to live a life in keeping with the word of God.
This person is not doing any harm to anyone, they are in a relationship that does not harm or affect anyone else, therefore they have no problem rationalising it. In fact to the letter of the Catholic morality they probably live a better life than me so who am I to judge or disassociate with them?

Should we condemn both of the above two persons or none? Because I can't fathom how it could be one and not the other. I instinctively believe that both these people are good people and they make their decisions on their life based on what they believe to be right and try earnestly to live a righteous life. Therefore I dont believe that they are wrong.
To compare what they do as comparable to murderers is way off the mark, this is instinctively something that I believe everyone knows to be wrong in their heart. In fact all sin is wrong in your heart and it is for this that we suffer both in this life and the next. If it is sin the above people will already be suffering with an inner struggle so you should actually have pity and compassion for them. To judge and shun them you could well be committing sin but that's something for yourself, ask yourself do you have inner struggle that you feel it is instinctively wrong to have a confrontary attitude to these people? The number of posts you have on the subject would suggest something is going on in your soul, but its a matter for you.


Also to finish this post with my signature pedantry I'll answer a couple of your previous points:
Jesus came to earth to save us from our sins, not some of us from some of your sins, all of us. We are all sinners.
and
....if you have a credit card at all it can easily be rationalised that you are aiding and abetting usury

[omaghjoe]

BTW Maguire if you are trying to associate the Catholic church with young earthers  refer to J70's post above.
Catholic faith is not about denying the physical it about having faith in the non-physical/non-empirical . A significant contributor to the Big Bang (IMO half-ass!) theory was a Belgian Jesuit.

[T Fearon]

OmaghJoe,there is sufficient evidence in Scripture (the only basis for belief) and it's the strict teaching of every mainstream Christian Church that homosexuality is sinful.You cannot be subjective about these things or adopt an a la Carte approach,you are either Christian or you are not.Its as simple as that.

On my previous points I should have qualified by saying that the gay community is no longer a persecuted minority,I can't think of any other concept in my own lifetime that has been decriminalised and elevated to full equal status with age long normal activities/concepts.Also by the way,as the point was raised,the catholic professional and land owning class were never discriminated against,here or anywhere else,it was the working class that bore the brunt of the discrimination.

I don't believe gay people were "born this way" but was making the irrefutable point that logically if they are then so are murderers,paedophiles etc.

[smelmoth]

Whether Jesus existed,or is the Son of God can neither be proved or disproved.I,along with millions of others believe he did exist and was the Son of God.What is wrong with that? Why are so many,as evidenced by this thread,not content to simply disagree with this but feel the need to ridicule this belief? Deep down do they fear it might just be true,and that their eternal destiny is dark?

You can believe what you like. When you be believe in the ridiculous then you can expect to be ridiculed. That is only fair and just.

But you are not content to believe. You want the law to reflect your particular belief based solely on the fact that it is your belief.

[smelmoth]

Ridicule is ultimately the product of fear.

Presumably that is a random selection of words?

Do you think ridicule will alter my beliefs one iota?

Don't know

Do you think I'm worried if my beliefs are ridiculed?

Don't care

[smelmoth]

I am not being judgemental,simply expressing the beliefs shared largely by all mainstream Christian Churches.

If you think that you are not judgemental because some others agree with you then you do not understand the meaning  of the word judgemental and should, on that basis, refrain from using it

[omaghjoe]

Tony if u condem them by that logic then you will also have to do the same for the money lenders as I demonstrated in the above examples. Are you really prepared to go down that line? You'd have to start poking holes in everyone lives as well if you wanted to be consistent

The logic for the murders is false. Thats a choice the indivual makes over his actions.
Its true they may not be born that way but environmental factors have likely a much bigger say in our physical and mental differences than DNA and genetics. Did u choose your fingerprints, your handedness?

[smelmoth]

I do not approve of the gay lifestyle, that does not mean I hate gays or would in any way harm them, and I am fully entitled to hold that view as are others to hold opposite views without being labelled emotionless,homophobic or any other extremist label.

You hold a view based upon a text of dubious veracity. But do not believe everything in that text. Therefore you hold those views because you chose to hold them - for reasons beyond their mere inclusion in the bible. Be honest and tell us what those reasons are.

[smelmoth]

Two other propositions I reject.

1.Gays are some persecuted minority.Look at the arrogance on display at any Gay Pride Parade and see the myth this is.

Describe this arrogance? Your word, so describe it.

2.Gays are "born that way". If this is true so are paedophiles,murderers,rapists etc therefore by logical extension no one should be held responsible for anything.

You really are a fcukwit of the highest order.
We can all see the harm that paedophiles, murderer and rapists do. If your "logical extension" is anything other than the ramblins of a deranged mind you will be able to illustrate the equivalent harm that being gay gives rise to?