There you are,Nolan /RTE poll tonight

[deiseach]

Deiseach these things are available at a much lesser price in the north solely because people in the south of England are being 'rode' to pay for it.

There's no comparison between the 2 economies and the 2 standards of living and that's even with a £10bn subvention propping the north up.

Arlen Foster was on last night with that peculiarly smugly face of hers, proudly talking about protestantism and Britishness. FFS Arlene your people are on their bellies begging the brits for a handout, i don't see what's to be proud of about that. It'd be the best thing ever happened this country if there was a united ireland and we had to pay our way. I don't see why the people of the 26 counties should just take over paying for our lifestyle as the brits do.

I hear ya. Joe Lee once masterfully skewered the pretensions of Unionism to thrifty self-sufficiency when he pointed out how the begging bowl that went out to Westminster in the post-war years was characterised by Stormont as being "scientific Ulster subsidies"

[LeoMc]

Deenihan only being honest.United Ireland unaffordable at present

Partition would also appear to be unaffordable for the north at present.

That was one thing stood out for me. There was almost a Unionist pride in being unaffordable. Basically how can 6m of you afford us when we are a drain on 65m.

[muppet]

what a complete utter waste of time 

very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!

i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!

Have you spent much time in the UK?

The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.

As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?

Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.

[trueblue1234]

Only 30% in the 26 Cos??
And only two thirds of the Catholic/Nationalist/Irish in the 6 Cos?
Ah well ......we can forget all this 1916 stuff next year and wear poppies instead I suppose

Rose to 66% 'in their lifetime'. But reduced to 31% if higher taxes. Saddens me but I'm not surprised.

Was it for this James Connolly was shot while sitting in a chair?
Time to strip them of their Irish passports unless they pay some tax to the 26 Co State

Did it drop to 31% in the North or the south?

[Rossfan]

what a complete utter waste of time 

very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!

i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!

Have you spent much time in the UK?

The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.

As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?

Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.

+1.
And by the time the current Brit Government leaves office things will be a lot worse for the poorer people and areas. 

[Hardy]

what a complete utter waste of time 

very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!

i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!

Have you spent much time in the UK?

The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.

As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?

Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/01/daily-chart

[Keyser soze]

One thing was very clear last night. Sinn Fein's strategy for getting a UI, if they ever had one, isn't working. They appear to have turned off a large swathe of nationalist opinion to the idea of a UI.

[Bingo]

Was a lot of extreme views from both sides - it would work easy, it would never work.

The professor on the RTE panel was the only one talking sense, when he said that before any vote, there would have to be clear and transparent information available for everyone to see exactly what they where voting for.

Under current governments could we ever see a case where they would be agreement on what exactly was the roadmap? Even if there was an agreement do we trust that they could deliver it or even stick to what was agreed?

People would be very fearful of agreeing to anything without knowledge of what they voting for. That's why a poll is all when and good but even the simple matter of paying more tax completely changes things, its clear that if people see the changes affecting their own wee corner its an entirely different matter.

[Keyboard Warrior]

what a complete utter waste of time 

very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!

i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!

Have you spent much time in the UK?

The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.

As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?

Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.

+1.
And by the time the current Brit Government leaves office things will be a lot worse for the poorer people and areas.

+1

[shawshank]

Was a lot of extreme views from both sides - it would work easy, it would never work.

The professor on the RTE panel was the only one talking sense, when he said that before any vote, there would have to be clear and transparent information available for everyone to see exactly what they where voting for.

Under current governments could we ever see a case where they would be agreement on what exactly was the roadmap? Even if there was an agreement do we trust that they could deliver it or even stick to what was agreed?

People would be very fearful of agreeing to anything without knowledge of what they voting for. That's why a poll is all when and good but even the simple matter of paying more tax completely changes things, its clear that if people see the changes affecting their own wee corner its an entirely different matter.

I also thought that what Sinn Finn were saying last night as well?

[6th sam]

what a complete utter waste of time 

very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!

i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!

Have you spent much time in the UK?

The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.

As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?

Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.

The economy in the north is under serious strain, the conflict and indeed post conflict eras have be dominated by sectarian politics. Real issues never seem to actually get dealt with, as politicians realise that despite arguments to the contrary , the electorate continues to vote on traditional lines, and in order to get re-elected they really don't want to be upsetting the status quo. If you ask most people what they are really concerned about , it's their cost and standard of living, jobs, health and education , but when it comes to voting these real issues aren't a factor, as ultimately both sides feel they have been wronged over the years, and are not yet at a stage when they are prepared to risk voting for "the other lot" because they don't trust them.
Those that are critical of the ROI economy should reflect on several independent parameters in which ROI scores very well. There is no doubt that ROI economy has been held back by the presence of the border etc, but you only have to look at things like educational achievement, infrastructure, overseas aid contribution , technology etc to realise how well ROI has done despite being on an island isolated from the rest of Europe . Those that are critical of the ROI economy in comparison to the UK, would do well to remember , that just over 50 years before the foundation of the state , under British jurisdiction millions of our ancestors died or emigrated . To be fair Ireland had to get up of its knees to recover from the famine, and when you consider how we have punched well above our weight in most aspects of a developed society , it's impossible not to feel very proud! I have several relatives in the UK and they would find your unsolicited praise of UK society laughable!

[Bingo]

Was a lot of extreme views from both sides - it would work easy, it would never work.

The professor on the RTE panel was the only one talking sense, when he said that before any vote, there would have to be clear and transparent information available for everyone to see exactly what they where voting for.

Under current governments could we ever see a case where they would be agreement on what exactly was the roadmap? Even if there was an agreement do we trust that they could deliver it or even stick to what was agreed?

People would be very fearful of agreeing to anything without knowledge of what they voting for. That's why a poll is all when and good but even the simple matter of paying more tax completely changes things, its clear that if people see the changes affecting their own wee corner its an entirely different matter.

I also thought that what Sinn Finn were saying last night as well?

It was hard to know what they or some of the others where saying as Nolan kept shouting at people to answer Yes or No.

The parties where saying this somewhat but it was clear that they had their own view on this and not any cross party thoughts or ideas that would be reality.

Also, people suggesting there would be savings from joining up, synergys in the public sector, etc. Really? The public sector? Savings? Couldn't see it in a million years. Public sector already bloated and controlled by unions in many sectors and can't see this changing anytime soon. If anything they'd be looking increases and payments for change in work practices.

[Rossfan]

. As has been said on here many times no one has tried to articulate what this New Ireland would look like.

Federal or Central structures? New constitution?
Current or new constituency and council boundaries?
Central or Regional control of services?
Bicameral? STV, PR, First past the post? Role of Head of state?
Rights for minorities (travellers, Gaelic speakers, Orange men)
Universal health care?
10 or 25 year plan to merge governments and align taxation / services

While no Political party ever outlines what a UI might look like - I have on several occasions over the years on this Board.
I proposed a Confederacy of two semi Autonomous regions - present 6 and 26 Cos each with control over various internal affairs run by slimmed down Stormont and Dáil.
Of course there would be a new Constitution with a new Flag and Anthem.( 26 Cos could keep A na bhF and Tricolour while the 6 remain with neither flag or anyhem )
Probably 6 Regional Councils in the 26 and 3 "Cantons" in the 6 Cos.
A Bicarmel system -
with 10 seats reserved for the Dáil and 10 for Stormont on the De Hondt system in the "House of Representatives", other 80 elected via current PR system ( approx 1 Seat per 80,000 people)
A "Senate" of 50 with seats reserved for minority groups ( say 10), the other 40 directly elected.
A joint  3 man " Confederate Presidency" of Dáil Ceann Comhairle plus Speaker and Deputy Speaker from Stormont who would be largely ceremonial and live at home and just get an extra allowance for their Presidential duties.

Obviously a major transitional plan required to implement and pay for that but by the time it starts to happen (2040?? ) the 26 Co economy should be over the Bail Out hangover and the 6 Cos ought to have an economy by then.
No doubt the EU/US would help out while the Brits/English will no doubt set up a "Thanksgiving fund" ( Thanks God we got rid of that effin place and we will pay anything to make sure it doesnt come back )

[finbar o tool]

what a complete utter waste of time 

very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!

i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!

Have you spent much time in the UK?

The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.

As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?

Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.

+1.
And by the time the current Brit Government leaves office things will be a lot worse for the poorer people and areas.

+1

so let me get this straight, as far as governments go, you all think that Enda Kenny and co, or Fianna FAIL before them, are better than the UK government?!?

and how would you come to the conclusion that the pound is NOT stronger than the euro??

its not necessarily a rant about our government, its highlighting that if i was living in the north, i would not like to join the current quagmire that is Irish politics!
i also have relatives in the UK as most here probably would, one in particular who was pretty much raised over there but is living here now due to family reasons. he can not believe how we pay for things like bins/fire services/ambulances/doctors/prescriptions/water. the mark up price of everything from the UK, school costs, the list goes on.
politicians do nothing except line their own pockets. healthcare here is a disgrace. i could go on. but whats the point! 

[Rossfan]

How is the pound stronger than the Euro?
What does £14 buy that €20 doesn't.
People in the € area no more than in Canada, US. Australia, China don't have to change their currency to GB£s before they can buy anything.
Do I detect a colonial mindset hangover? ?