GAA Discussion Paper

[AZOffaly]

No mention of the great untouchable - third level competitions.
Is the hurlyU21 to be left to avoid upsetting "hurling man"? Makes no sense keeping one while abolishing the other.
Inter Co JFC and IHC don't serve any real purpose.
Good luck with the compulsory extra time but it is a great and easy solution to a problem.
However I can see Prov Finals and AI semis and Finals being exempted €€€€€€s.
Can we also have both Football and Hurling AI semis played in one weekend each? 1 Sat and 1 Sunday.
Obviously a rule limiting eligibilities for the elite 17-21 group might be needed.

Hurling U21 is being held because it is not run at the same time as the other hurling competitions.

[deiseach]

Playing games to a finish . . . I'd be up for it, but you'd have to have some mechanism to ensure it happen. Penalties? Golden point/goal? First to get two scores? The latter would be my choice, but I can see lots of people objecting.

[AZOffaly]

If you can't separate the teams after 90 minutes, then they should have a big row to determine the winner.

[6th sam]

Why scrap the football U-21 Championship, but not the hurling one?

Are hurlers immune to burnout?

I think they scrap the U21 Football, but replace with U19. I don't like this as it is too big a jump from U19 to senior, for development purposes.

I think this whole idea is arseways.

There is certainly a problem with burnout for a small number of elite players. But that is because every 3rd level institution, club and county (all doubled for a dual players) insists it is their right to play their best players without any consideration given to his health or progression.

But behind every elite 19 year old player playing 3 times a week, is a bench full of lads, who train very hard and are eager to play, who are very close to dropping out of the game. That is worse to me.

The solution is to limit the demands on the small number of players that are the issue, not scrap competitions.

In my opinion this is the key point that seems to be lost on a succession of administrators at various levels. We are using too broad a brush stroke to eliminate the genuine problem of burnout in a small number of elite players.
I have commented before on several occasions , that the simple solution is to have different competitions at club level: A. Top prestige competitions with your county players involved(eg extended championship. B. A less prestigious but valued competition when county players only play if released . This would require games being played in blocks as per the Heineken cup/pro 12 mix in rugby. This works well and the international player management scheme , protects those elite players from burnout/injury, while allowing the majority of players a game every week. We can discuss until we are blue in the face, but unless headquarters shows leadership and demands a player management scheme for our elite, while insisting on weekly games for the rest, the problems and continual tinkering , will continue. Meanwhile we ignore the "elephant in the room" ie that we don't provide an attractive fixture programme for the vast majority of our players

[Rossfan]

Hurling U21 is being held because it is not run at the same time as the other hurling competitions.

It's played slap bang in the middle of the AI SHC.

[Captain Obvious]

College league football is currently been played then you have the championships in the new year. College football is surely as much a cause for burn out if not more than the U21 football championship.

[AZOffaly]

Hurling U21 is being held because it is not run at the same time as the other hurling competitions.

It's played slap bang in the middle of the AI SHC.

sorry, I know that I should have said that is their rationale. This is the document's position on it...

"(ii) the U-21 football championship to be
discontinued. (It is not proposed to change
the U-21 hurling championship as its
scheduling does not encourage players to
play on multiple teams simultaneously.) "

So the Galway lads last year were only imagining being on two teams competing for All Irelands at the same time

[Rossfan]

Hurling U21 is being held because it is not run at the same time as the other hurling competitions.

It's played slap bang in the middle of the AI SHC.

sorry, I know that I should have said that is their rationale. This is the document's position on it...

"(ii) the U-21 football championship to be
discontinued. (It is not proposed to change
the U-21 hurling championship as its
scheduling does not encourage players to
play on multiple teams simultaneously.) "

So the Galway lads last year were only imagining being on two teams competing for All Irelands at the same time

Crazy stuff.
Why not make it U20 but have a rule that you can only be on 1 County panel at a time.
A lad can always move up to Senior when U 20 finished.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.

[AZOffaly]

Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.

That's the sensible alternative. Use the U21 as a development tool, as it's supposed to be. Leaving a gap from U17 to Senior is way too big of a jump.

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.

That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.

[Zulu]

Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.

That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.

Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.

[stronghold]

Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.

That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.

Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.

Unfortunately not enough people know the madness that is going on. Competitions are one thing but the main problem is the training regime, pure madness that are players are being asked to do. The U21 football championship does not start until March but already several counties have been training two and three time at week from September including 7am starts.
This madness has to stop, pre season training for up to 6 months before a competition starts cannot be right.

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.

That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.

Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.

Underage competitions are about developing players however not playing with or against the best U21s e.g U21s on the senior panel would dilute the competition and those non seniors would miss out on playing against the best at their grade.

U21 football championship is a popular grade for supporters it would soon lose it's appeal if the competition was diluted.

[muppet]

Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.

That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.

Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.

Underage competitions are about developing players however not playing with or against the best U21s e.g U21s on the senior panel would dilute the competition and those non seniors would miss out on playing against the best at their grade.

U21 football championship is a popular grade for supporters it would soon lose it's appeal if the competition was diluted.

It may also lose its appeal if it is scrapped.