Author Topic: Brexit.  (Read 618898 times)

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6930 on: March 14, 2019, 09:26:48 AM »
3. The eu fail to agree any kind of extension because some of the right sing leaders veto it. In this case we fall into no deal by accident.

In that instance, would the only way to satisfy the motion passed yesterday be to revoke Art. 50 and then start it again at a later date - when they've actually done due diligence?
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Farrandeelin

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6931 on: March 14, 2019, 10:00:12 AM »
3. The eu fail to agree any kind of extension because some of the right sing leaders veto it. In this case we fall into no deal by accident.

In that instance, would the only way to satisfy the motion passed yesterday be to revoke Art. 50 and then start it again at a later date - when they've actually done due diligence?

Does May have to get that through the House of Commons? To revoke Article 50?
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weareros

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6932 on: March 14, 2019, 10:08:49 AM »
3. The eu fail to agree any kind of extension because some of the right sing leaders veto it. In this case we fall into no deal by accident.

In that instance, would the only way to satisfy the motion passed yesterday be to revoke Art. 50 and then start it again at a later date - when they've actually done due diligence?

Does May have to get that through the House of Commons? To revoke Article 50?

Yes an Act of Parliament required, so no guarantee that would pass.

Solo_run

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6933 on: March 14, 2019, 12:17:55 PM »
Everything other than the backstop has been agreed hasn't it? So why would an extension be needed - other than to resolve the backstop which they have had months to do.

HiMucker

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6934 on: March 14, 2019, 12:58:12 PM »
It looks like there may be a bit of climb down by the DUP judging by a couple of statements today.

Hereiam

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6935 on: March 14, 2019, 01:06:38 PM »
What worries me is what have the DUP got in terms of concessions for backing this deal.
I would say they have the governments word that there will be no border poll
A get out for RHI nama etc etc
Promises that protestant communities will continue to receive more than their fair share of grant money etc etc.

yellowcard

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6936 on: March 14, 2019, 01:08:43 PM »
It looks like there may be a bit of climb down by the DUP judging by a couple of statements today.

May's deal looks almost inevitable now at this stage and Arlene Foster has now indicated that they were only ever likely to do business at the 11th hour. If and when they sign up the ERG will likely follow otherwise they are getting a much softer Brexit or no Brexit at all.

armaghniac

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6937 on: March 14, 2019, 01:21:27 PM »
What worries me is what have the DUP got in terms of concessions for backing this deal.
I would say they have the governments word that there will be no border poll

If there is a backstop then there is the Secretary of State can plausibly say that there does not appear to be a majority in favour of a UI. Of course this is not really a gain for the DUP as if there had been no Brexit a border poll would not be seen as a current thing.

If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Jim_Murphy_74

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6938 on: March 14, 2019, 01:26:33 PM »
It looks like there may be a bit of climb down by the DUP judging by a couple of statements today.

May's deal looks almost inevitable now at this stage and Arlene Foster has now indicated that they were only ever likely to do business at the 11th hour. If and when they sign up the ERG will likely follow otherwise they are getting a much softer Brexit or no Brexit at all.

Holding out for another bribe all along.   

Also I suspect despite their Britishness, they saw May's statement last night that no deal Brexit would require direct rule as a threat.   

No deal and direct rule would mean loss of face to business and farmers, no slush funds to divvy up their buddies, Gay marriage, abortion and language acts aligned with rest of UK, no Stormont salaries etc. etc..

It's good for border area if this is sorted but the price will be the continued politics by (sectarian) numbers of the North.

/Jim.


seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6939 on: March 14, 2019, 01:30:20 PM »
It looks like there may be a bit of climb down by the DUP judging by a couple of statements today.

May's deal looks almost inevitable now at this stage and Arlene Foster has now indicated that they were only ever likely to do business at the 11th hour. If and when they sign up the ERG will likely follow otherwise they are getting a much softer Brexit or no Brexit at all.

I don't think Grieve or Ken Clarke will vote for the deal and May has a working majority of 3
Even if she did get it through Parliament it would only be the start


They still need to negotiate :

an ultimate trade pact with the EU;
an interim agreement with the bloc, to cover the period between exit and the longer-term deal;
re-entry into the World Trade Organisation as a full member;
new arrangements with the 50 or so countries that now have an accord with the EU and, presumably, with additional countries, too, such as the US and China; and, finally,
UK-EU ties in foreign and defence policy, police and judicial co-operation and counter-terrorism
Lookit

yellowcard

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6940 on: March 14, 2019, 01:56:02 PM »
It looks like there may be a bit of climb down by the DUP judging by a couple of statements today.

May's deal looks almost inevitable now at this stage and Arlene Foster has now indicated that they were only ever likely to do business at the 11th hour. If and when they sign up the ERG will likely follow otherwise they are getting a much softer Brexit or no Brexit at all.

I don't think Grieve or Ken Clarke will vote for the deal and May has a working majority of 3
Even if she did get it through Parliament it would only be the start


They still need to negotiate :

an ultimate trade pact with the EU;
an interim agreement with the bloc, to cover the period between exit and the longer-term deal;
re-entry into the World Trade Organisation as a full member;
new arrangements with the 50 or so countries that now have an accord with the EU and, presumably, with additional countries, too, such as the US and China; and, finally,
UK-EU ties in foreign and defence policy, police and judicial co-operation and counter-terrorism

If DUP/ERG were convinced to go with the deal because it is the best option available to them, I don't think there is anyway that Clarke, Grieve or any other lone MP would stop it from going through parliament, there would be a sweetener somewhere to bring them all in line.

I think that May's deal with a short extension to finalise it looks on the cards now. You only have to read between the lines to see how the DUP's stance has softened.

Solo_run

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6941 on: March 14, 2019, 05:48:57 PM »
I have as much dislike for Corbyn as I do May.

Eamonnca1

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6942 on: March 14, 2019, 07:40:07 PM »
Lemme get this straight. Labour's leadership instructed the party to abstain on whether to run a second referendum? What's Corbyn playing at?

Farrandeelin

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6943 on: March 14, 2019, 07:43:14 PM »
Lemme get this straight. Labour's leadership instructed the party to abstain on whether to run a second referendum? What's Corbyn playing at?

I don't think he knows himself at this stage tbh.
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Eamonnca1

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6944 on: March 15, 2019, 12:22:28 AM »
As I suspected, it's a procedural maneuver.

Quote
Jeremy Corbyn leads Labour MPs in support for second referendum, minutes after abstaining on vote to deliver People’s Vote

 Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has said his party supports a second referendum, minutes after his MPs were whipped to abstain on an amendment to delay Brexit in order to deliver a People’s Vote.

Another night of high drama in the House of Commons saw MPs overwhelmingly reject the amendment which pushed for a second referendum.

Mr Corbyn, who refused to vote for the amendment, told the House afterwards: “I reiterate our support for a public vote, not as political point scoring but as a realistic option to beat the deadlock.”

The Islington North MP’s comments were met with jeers from other MPs.


After the vote was cast, MP for Ilford North Wes Streeting posted an open letter to Twitter explaining why he and many of his Labour colleagues, who are in favour for a second referendum, abstained from voting.

 

The letter read: “We are all deeply committed to securing a People’s Vote. But to win that vote, we need to win a vote in the House of Commons.

“The best chance of that is via the so-called Kyle/Wilson amendment, which isn't being voted on today.

“The official People’s Vote campaign has said this isn’t the right time.”


Echoing this, Labour’s Dr Roseana Allin-Khan said: “The @peoplesvote_uk campaign have put out a statement - they want MPs to abstain tonight, which is the right thing to do.

“I’m a proud supporter of a PV and will do everything I can to make it happen - but tonight’s amendment won’t work - it’ll ruin our chances of success.”

Labour's Stephen Doughty, a supporter of the People's Vote campaign for a second referendum, said it was "obvious and essential" that the UK needs to extend the Brexit deadline.

"That was rightly the focus of today's debate and votes and the Government had been forced into extension after a succession of defeats. The Prime Minister's former self-imposed deadline of 29 March does not work, as even she now admits.

"In the days and weeks ahead, MPs will have to make more decisions on this crucial issue. Any extension of the Article 50 deadline must be used to deliver the clarity about Brexit that has been missing from the last two-and-a-half years of vexed debate. We need to decide whether we are willing to pay the huge price of going it alone, of which the £50 billion divorce bill will only be the start."


After the second referendum amendment was rejected by MPs, The Independent Group's Brexit spokeswoman Anna Soubry said: "This is a betrayal of Labour Party members and voters, Labour MPs, Labour's conference policy and, most importantly, the British public.

"The Labour Party leadership are determined to deliver Brexit, which would harm our country.

"But The Independent Group will not give up. We will keep up the pressure for a People's Vote on the final Brexit deal.

"We'll keep holding the Government to account and providing the real opposition our country needs. The British people deserve the final say on Brexit."

Chuka Umunna, also of the Independent Group, also laid into his former party’s decision to abstain from voting.

The Streatham MP tweeted: “The Labour leadership said for months if an election can’t be triggered+their alternative fails they will back a #PeoplesVote -the party’s eurosceptic leadership have betrayed so many Labour supporters and voters by failing to vote for it today. @TheIndGroup will keep pressing it.”


Reacting to the result on the Wollaston amendment, the SNP leader in Westminster called Labour "absolutely spineless" and "the midwives" to Theresa May's Brexit.

Ian Blackford tweeted: "We have lost a people's vote amendment by 334 votes to 85 votes. Labour abstained.

"An opportunity to drive forward the need for such a vote and Labour flunk it. They are the midwives to @theresa-may Brexit. Absolutely spineless. #peoplesvote"

MPs also voted to delay Brexit beyond the scheduled date of March 29, with Theresa May making it clear that she will first press her Brexit deal to a third "meaningful vote" in the Commons.

London Mayor Sadiq Khan tweeted in response: "Whilst Parliament has voted to make it less likely that we will crash out with no deal, the ongoing chaos shows exactly why we need to stop the clock, revoke Article 50 and with Parliament in gridlock - give the public the final say on Brexit."

DUP leader Arlene Foster told Channel 4 News: "We are talking to the Government and to the Attorney General at the moment to try and make a deal happen because we want to see Brexit working, we want to see it working for the whole of the UK in a way that doesn't leave Northern Ireland behind."